July 22, 2021
INTERVIEW
### Intro Quote [00:00:00]
Sandra Villines: [00:00:00]
And getting through Yosemite, so difficult because at the time we went through there and I'm sure it's probably the case all the time, but there was just a lot of people in like RVs.
And the RVs were like all over the road and lots of times on the road, there was no shoulder. And if I looked over the road, I could see, I'm going to fall. If I slip down here, you know, I mean, it was some scary point.
### Episode Intro [00:00:30]
Kevin Chang: [00:00:30]
Hello and welcome to the RaceMob podcast. This is episode number 58.
I'm Kevin entrepreneur technology and fitness nerd, and I'm joined by the head coach of RaceMob and master motivator, the incomparable Bertrand Newson.
### Guest Introduction [00:00:45]
We have heard some incredible stories over the past year, but this one just might take the cake. There's a prestigious record that has stood for almost 40 years before Sandra came and completely crushed it. In 1978, Mavis Hutchinson of South Africa set a new transcontinental record by running from Los Angeles to New York in a little over 69 days.
That's a record that stood for 39 years. That's when Sandra set out on an even longer and more difficult route: from San Francisco to New York and completed it in just 54 days.
So a Sandra attract star with a long family history of elite athleticism. Some no, in fact, this humble, incredibly gracious athlete was a single mother who described herself as overweight and needed to make a change.
And this was just in 2013. Yeah, that's right. From starting a new workout routine on the treadmill of her local gym to winning the Badwater Ultra Marathon a few years later in 2017. A race that even Dean Karnazes has described as one of the most difficult on the planet, because temperatures regularly hit well over a hundred years. Because the race is located in death valley and one false step can literally melt the shoes off of your feet.
And then going on to set this impossible world record, you're going to love this incredibly intense firing conversation with an incredible woman. All of the show notes can be found online at RaceMob dot com slash podcast.
And without further ado, here's our conversation.
### Start of the Interview [00:02:29]
Bertrand Newson: [00:02:29]
Hello, RaceMob audience. Welcome to this week's podcast episode, and we are so wonderfully excited to have Sandra V who is a remarkable, strong, determined, relentless tenacious mother, ultra runner, winter of Badwater 2017 and so much more. So without further ado, welcome Sandy
Sandra Villines: [00:02:57]
Oh, thank you guys. Thanks for having me. I had to kind of share my story in hopes that maybe it's inspiring to others or answer some of the curious questions. I'm sure that people ask things that I still get asked and you know, that type of thing. So, yeah. Thanks
Bertrand Newson: [00:03:15]
Time out. Did you say might be in, it might be inspiring?
Sandra Villines: [00:03:20]
It might be inspiring.
Bertrand Newson: [00:03:21]
Oh, my Lord. This is an Episode that you will want to replay very good for those long runs. So if you're feeling a little down a little tired and wondering, you know, where can I find a little bit of motivation, little bit of inspiration, your story in which you're about to listen to will keep you going on those days.
We need a little extra where you need that motivation to help get you over the hump. To know that somebody who's run a marathon, done a triathlon ran across the United States, won Badwater and, and, and and he will be able to peel back the layers on those stories.
### Sandra's Origin Story [00:03:59]
So let's go ahead and kind of start there in regards to, you know home life and you as an athlete growing up, you know, where you lived and we'll kind of let the conversation take off from it.
Sandra Villines: [00:04:10]
So he's interesting to tell this story because there's not much to tell and growing up, I was never an athlete at all. I hate any kind of sports. Just was never. Saying, I was kind of the quiet nerd, read a book, you know, write a story, draw a picture, don't throw anything at me cause I probably won't catch it. I probably can't run very far.
You know, and that's pretty much just my childhood. I, I do recall this one, one time. And it was when jogging was a thing. It was probably in the late seventies. And of course I probably just dated myself, but that's all good.
My, my dad was into running and jogging and it was like the thing. And I remember one, one morning it was like, you know, I think my parents felt like they needed to get me, you know, more active and healthier state and wanted me to go for a run with him. And I, I must've been about seven or eight, but I still remember this. It was horrific for me.
I remember, I remember thinking like running, just trying to keep up with him and we probably didn't go very far. Honestly was probably like a Roman block, you know, and it was dark outside and I just, it seemed like an attorney were out there.
My lungs were on fire. Like I was sweating profusely. It was like, who does this for fun? I was so miserable, you know, and I was like, I would never, ever want to run. Like I hated it.
You know, it was just, it was awful. And I just, I have that vivid memory because I, I refer to that often when, you know, to this day I'm like running or, or training. It's like, I remember that time. Cause I, I was, I was hating it so much and I'm in a place where I actually enjoy running, you know, for hours at a time.
And you know, that's a whole nother story, but it's just ironic. I didn't really even taint the idea of wanting to run until I was probably a youngest.
Kevin Chang: [00:05:56]
Well, I mean, I think, and so much of our audience relates to that, you know Bertrand and I are both later in life runners and I had heard, you know, similar to me, I was overweight. Right. That's one of the reasons why I got started in it's running.
And we've heard that from many, many of our guests that we got into the sport, never even imagined that we would fall in love with the sport, and then take it to new Heights.
### Start of the Running Journey [00:06:19]
So tell us a little bit about your journey and your start , into running.
Sandra Villines: [00:06:23]
Yeah. So just exactly what you just said. It was kind of a journey into, okay. Self-check I need to get fit. I need to be healthier version of myself at the time I was I was single mom and, you know, very unhealthy, very overweight.
And I had always kind of had a weight problem my whole life, but it came to a point where, you know, it was interfering with, you know, functioning on a daily basis and you don't have energy to do anything. You know, what kind of parent can you be?
So it was kind of more of a, I turned to running to lose weight and even I knew I hated it. I'm gonna make myself do this. I'm going to drag myself to the gym and to put myself on the treadmill and I'm going to make myself do this. And so of course it was miserable and I hated it probably for the first, you know, six months or so.
But once you start to feel better and your body acclimates to it, like I just realized like, oh, this isn't so bad. You know, I started to take my running outside, you know, just running around outside. And I just, I did it because I liked it. There was no I wanted to race or anything. I had actually no knowledge of any of that.
You know, it was just running was just a way to be healthy. Running was something I was starting to like until it came upon the time when I was actually like going to run my first half marathon. And I, I stumbled across that because I I'd seen the sign posted at the gym about a half marathon. And mind you, this was how naive I was.
I didn't even really know how far that was. So I had to like, look everything up. What was a half marathon? I want to do this. And I was like, oh, 13 miles. Huh. It seems kind of far to the time I was only running like maybe five or six miles, like, okay. Four times a week, I'd gotten, you know, which is like a huge accomplishment.
Right. You know, that's a huge accomplishment. So I don't, I don't want to dismiss that at all. Cause you know, any, any way forward is always a good way. And I was like, well, I think I can do this. I think I can do this. And of course, you know, people that I knew were like, you should start with like a 5k or like a 10 K like, yeah, I'm just gonna do the half mirror I'm going to get right into this half marathon thing.
So I started looking at up and seeing the distance and actually the name of the race was Dean Karnazes Silicone Valley. Half marathon. Yes.
Kevin Chang: [00:08:32]
that was my first half marathon. And we just had know and yeah, a couple
Sandra Villines: [00:08:36]
That's like, the OJI half marathon. I don't even think it exists anymore. Right. So.
Kevin Chang: [00:08:41]
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't, I mean, run local still puts on the Silicon valley half marathon. And now MEB is a co-sponsor of that, but yeah, that's, that's fantastic. That might've been my first half marathon.
Sandra Villines: [00:08:51]
Right. We may have even been there. Like I still have, I have that metal hanging because it's, you know, it's, it's my first half marathon. So I'm like, well...
Bertrand Newson: [00:09:00]
what year for perspective?
Sandra Villines: [00:09:02]
That was 2014. 13. Yeah. It
Kevin Chang: [00:09:08] yeah, I think,
Sandra Villines: [00:09:10]
way back
Kevin Chang: [00:09:10]
my always 2010 mine was 2010. Yeah.
Bertrand Newson: [00:09:13]
Wow. Wow. Well, I mean, considering what Kevin and I know about you right now and for you to complete your very first half marathon that I hear that correctly, 2014?
Sandra Villines: [00:09:25]
Was 14, I believe.
Bertrand Newson: [00:09:28]
Oh my goodness.
### Consistency and Motivation
Kevin Chang: [00:09:30]
Incredible. Well, I mean, talk to us a little bit about that, that starting journey, right? Like so finding, finding a treadmill, how did you get yourself onto that treadmill? How did you find consistency?
What was it that, you know, do you have any tips for our audience that is just trying to find that motivation or they're just trying to find those first steps on how it worked for you and how you, how you got yourself out to the treadmill and got yourself to start falling in love with the sport.
Sandra Villines: [00:09:56]
Yeah, I just I committed to it. Like I verbally told myself I was going to do this every day and I started small. So every day for 20 minutes I would do this for a week. And then I would gradually increase the time I spent on it. So I wasn't looking at miles back then. It was like, okay, I'm going to spend 20 minutes every day.
That's, that's a realistic goal. I can commit to doing that every day. And that's what I tell people that I'm like working with their coaching now, like make that small commitment. It doesn't have to be something that's so outrageous. And then you'll grow into your goals. As you start to see progress, you're going to spill more, you know, enthusiasm and energy around it.
Okay. I'm getting stronger, you know, I'm leaning out whatever your goals are and then you'll start to progress and that's kind of, you just have to start with something that's good for you. And that's what was good for me at the time, you know, until I just progressed up to, you know, miles and then counting hours and, you know, laps and all that crazy stuff I do now.
But yeah, I mean, that would be my advice. You just have to start, you have to make the commitment and start small because once you see that you, you reach that goal, you set for yourself, no matter what it is, it's an accomplishment. You know, it's a huge accomplishment for yourself. And that starts to build that confidence and that, you know, I can do it.
And you know, you start looking, thinking that big or looking at bigger things and what else can I do?
### The Initial Motivation [00:11:24]
Kevin Chang: [00:11:24]
That's incredible. Yeah. And, and so inspirational, you know, give our audience some idea of what life was like before you found, you know, the treadmill and found this you know, whether that be scale, weight, or, or other things you said that things were hindering you, or you could, you could sense you know, from a health standpoint that you needed to make a change.
Sandra Villines: [00:11:43]
Well, I'll tell you when you got it, gotta keep buying bigger pants. Cause they don't button. That's pretty a big sign right there. That light, whoa, like something's got to change here, you know, or coming home from work and just being so tired, you know, you don't have any energy to do that anything, you know.
Let alone, you know, try and, you know, spend time with my daughter and, and be a good role model was that was the first indication is like, you know, my clothes don't fit, I'm constantly having to get bigger pants. Like this is not good. You know, it's not healthy, you know? So I started just, I just made the commitment that I have to do something and you know, just start. Making better food choices and you know, that type of thing.
### Scheduling Tips [00:12:23]
Kevin Chang: [00:12:23]
And 20 minutes a day, you know, sometimes when you're starting out, it seems tough to schedule and whatnot. Did you have any scheduling tips too? Or are you finding time before work afterwards?
Sandra Villines: [00:12:34]
Yeah. So I had, I've always had to have like with my daughter growing up, like a very set type of schedule, cause everything was, you know, I had to get her to school at a certain time and then I had to be at work at a certain time. And so then that leads very, you know, very little time for other things. So I always squeeze my workouts at that time in after work.
So I would pick her up and we would go to the gym and she would be in the daycare. And I would do my, spend my hour there at the gym, you know, five days during the week, I just made it a part of my daily regimen because you have to create that habit, whatever it is.
If it's, you know, walking around your block for 30 minutes, whatever it is, but you have to incorporate that somehow into your daily routine, just to make it a part of that, you know, regular, healthy habit that you're going to start. Yeah,
### One Thing Leads to Another [00:13:21]
Kevin Chang: [00:13:21]
I love that. Well, I mean, talk to us about the half marathon.
Sandra Villines: [00:13:24]
Oh yeah. So, so yeah, so back to that story, I didn't know who, you know, Dean Karnazes was at the time, so of course I'm like Googling and looking stuff up.
And I was like, wow, she could see my expression right now. Cause I was like, wow, what the heck? What the heck?
Bertrand Newson: [00:13:44]
He's probably saying the same thing about you right now.
Sandra Villines: [00:13:46]
I was what the heck? Right. I was like, so intrigued. Cause then, you know, the more that you read, you know, so about, you know, someone's accomplishments and then like, you know, you dig in and you're like, oh, what is this?
What's an ultra marathon. I was like, what's an ultra, like people run farther than 26 miles? Cause I had, I finally understood what a marathon was. And to me that was like, oh my God, who runs a marathon? Right. Let alone anything past that. And I was like, oh my God. And then I discovered this, you know what Badwater was like, I was so intrigued.
I was so untreated mind you, I hadn't even run the half marathon yet. So like, my brain is like spinning and I'm like, I want to do that. I'm going to do that. You know? And I was like, so excited. I remember telling people about it, like, you know, people that run in the desert and death valley and like their shoes are melting on the ground.
I'm like, the ground is like, it's like wicked hot out there. Like you could die. Like, but I want to do that, you know? And I just remember
Bertrand Newson: [00:14:44]
you sound by
Sandra Villines: [00:14:44]
I was so excited and it's still, it just inspires me up because that water's coming up right now and I'm going off to support a friend. And it's just like, you know, I just, I take it so seriously.
But I remember, you know, just like telling people that I knew and they were like, you are nuts. Like there's no way you're going to ever do that. Like, there's people that have been waiting for years of a treatment training for years, that's their dream race. Like, there's just, yeah. Right. Sandra, you have me run a half marathon, like just chill out.
Bertrand Newson: [00:15:10]
I mean, I am still in amazement with the trajectory of your starting your, your very first half marathon in 2014, to where you are now. I mean, as a running coach, you just don't see leaps like that. A mother working, you know, working mother. So I'm just going to sit back and eat popcorn and let you and Kevin tucked up for front row seat of this story right here.
When's the movie come out. When does the movie come out?
Sandra Villines: [00:15:37]
The movie, you're funny! So, yeah, that's I mean, and ever since I had discovered what that was, I, I probably Googled like every video I could find about people's adventures at Badwaters, you know? So like I see these vehicles at night. I see people all lit up with, you know, cause it's a nighttime race at the time.
I am very nice. I don't know about any of it. So I'm like, these people are moving in the middle of the night, like, how is that humanly possible? Like, what are they eating? Are they sleeping? How are they using the bathroom? Like, how are they still moving? You know? And, and what is this, what is, who are these people in the vehicles?
Like, what are they doing? They're like meeting them and keeping them moving and, you know, doing these, you know, caring for them. And I, the whole thing was just, it became extremely intriguing to me.
And from the time that I, I set forth to do the half marathon, I made it like a personal goal that someday I was going to do that because I was just so intrigued and it seemed like such a challenge.
I would just work my way up to eventually being able to like, at least put my name in the hat for a race like that. Cause to me all the work that was required to just be able to apply was like a huge milestone.
Like being able to do that. I was so proud, you know, to be able to say that I did everything I could to actually submit an application, you know, to Chris Cosmin and say, look, I've done everything.
And then some, you know, to be able to at least apply,
Kevin Chang: [00:17:04]
That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it gives us a, a good view into your mindset and the type of the type of person yeah. That, that you know, that you are taking on these challenges, thinking so far ahead, getting, getting really deep into and setting goals for yourself, which is just incredible.
### Setting Goals: Projecting for Badwater [00:17:23]
And, and something that we talk with our athletes all the time about setting goals and putting a plan in place to go out and achieve those goals. So I guess, I mean, talk to us a little bit about, you know? you have this goal now to some day compete in Badwater. Did you figure out which year you wanted to compete in?
Did you put a plan, a little bit of a plan in place? Yeah.
I guess, I mean, talk to us a little bit about that.
Sandra Villines: [00:17:47]
So for a couple of years, I just, I did a lot of half marathon. I did a lot of full marathons and mind you I'm coach lists, right? I'm just like what I learned on online and you know, what makes sense to me. And, you know, I started upping my mileage on my own. So probably 2014, I decided like to do my very first.
D Ron passed 26 miles. And so I hadn't actually signed up for a race. I was just running around, you know, my neighborhood and, you know, east side of San Jose. I mean, just, you know, I had my Hills and my, my roots in places that I ran and, you know, I just started working my way up. And I remember I was so excited to run.
I had made a schedule for myself and I was gonna run 30 miles that day. I had no, or run that bar. So I thought something magical was going to happen. Like, I'm looking at my watch. I'm like, okay. 28, 29, 30, like did something magical happened? No, you're still running. Just keep moving. So I thought some miraculous thing was going to happen.
Like when you actually, you go past 26 miles and it was like, oh, nothing, nothing's broken. Just keep moving.
### Hydration and Diet [00:18:52]
Kevin Chang: [00:18:52]
Did you find that your body could just naturally go longer and longer distances? Did you find that You had to change your nutrition strategy, hydration strategy? How, how did you end up, you know, being able to go and ultra distance? That seems farfetched for me. I mean,
Sandra Villines: [00:19:09]
You know what? It was just like a weird epiphany. It's like I did it. And then I was just like, oh, it was almost like easier to run farther in my, what I call now, like that zone where I can just like tune everything out and just run. And then I guess I refer to that as like a happy pace. Like you just, you can just go and go and go.
But I remember doing that first run and I was like, oh, okay. I don't know what I was expecting to happen. I was going to expect myself to fall over, like all of a sudden I needed like something, but I didn't, it was like, Okay. And so, you know, at that point I decided, okay, I'm ready to sign up for an actual, you know, 50 K style race.
And so I did a lot of 50 Ks. A lot of the coastal trail runs out there in San Jose and in that Silicon valley bay area, because there are a good way to get that longer distance in where I wasn't always on the road. And I wanted to make sure that, you know, I gave my body a break. I'm not always hitting pavement.
I'm running on trails, it's time on my feet. So I use a lot of those. A lot of those runs for training runs under my Valerie. Any time something popped up, I would sign up for it. Plus I think it's just good, and it's a different environment to be out there and, you know, in the trails versus on the road. So my first actual 50 K was in, I think, February of 2015, and that was kind of the initiation of my plan.
So I'm going to do these 50 Ks. I'm going to do the other two Badwater events because from what I had understood. It's not enough just to be able to run the 300 mile races that are required to submit an application. You know, it's about being a part of the Badwater family and community. It's like, what are you giving back?
Are you supporting the other races? Are you coming out and supporting another runner? So I did all that. I went to Cape fear, which is in South Carolina, it's at 51 miler on the island, you know, across the beach and any Badwater races difficult. And that was like my very first, very first, like big, big, you know, run was like, you know, over 50 miles.
And then two months later I went to Salt and Sea with people that I didn't know on a team that I met on Facebook, you know? And at that time you were required to known a veteran to be able to be a part of a team for Saul and a see, cause that's a race where. It's either two or three team.
And it's not a relay, you, y'all have to run together the entire time. So somebody struggling, then you all struggle together. You know, it's, that's the way it is that you can't leave anybody behind. You have to stay together the entire time. So it really teaches you a lot about thinking about other people and it's not, you know, it's your race as a team.
So I did both of those events. And actually, if you complete saw NC, it's actually acknowledged as a hundred miler in Badwater road because it's such a challenging race. I mean, you have two huge mountain climbs, so it's a combination of road you're in the heat. You got that last climb at Palomar mountain.
And then of course it's cold. So it's, it's almost a... Comparable to like a little mini Badwater, if you will with the climbing and then the, the conditions and the distance. So I remember doing that. And so in 2015, I did a lot. I did, you know, all these 50 Ks, I did those two Badwater events. I did my first triathlon iron man in Santa Cruz.
So I did a lot of things that year
Kevin Chang: [00:22:32]
You did iron man
Sandra Villines: [00:22:34]
it, it was just a half. I had to learn how to, I had to learn how to swim first. I didn't know how to swim. No, I'm serious. I had to learn how to swim. I wanted to, I wanted to learn how to swim. So that's another story in itself too. But training, I wanted to be able to put that on my, on my resume. So I trained for that half iron man and yeah, so. Well, I did that too.
And then my actual first, first a hundred mile race was actually here in Florida. And so mind you at the time, I'd never been here before. I didn't know anything about humidity. I didn't know what that was going to be like. They know about the dewpoint, so of course I signed up for this race, but because it was a road run and it was point a point and I thought it would be a good challenge to do that.
So my first actual hundred miler was here in Florida. They the Daytona 100 and I remember flying out here and it wasn't, it was in November. And that's not a time when it's supposed to be wicked, wicked hot. It's kind of cooled down a little bit. It's kind of like, you know, your summer seasons kind of over.
I remember coming out of the airport and the door opened. It was like this big blanket of like just moisture and all that. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. What am I going to do? What have I gotten myself into?
Kevin Chang: [00:23:56]
Okay.
Sandra Villines: [00:23:56]
I'm by myself. I mean, I crude myself for that.
Kevin Chang: [00:23:59]
Wow.
Sandra Villines: [00:24:01]
and my sister came as support. But they were in the hotel and they pick me up when I was done and
Kevin Chang: [00:24:07]
Wow.
Sandra Villines: [00:24:08]
All these bags I made for all these aid stations.
Cause I had no idea exactly what I was going to need. So I just remember thinking, oh, how am I going to get through this? Whether like, I don't know anything about dealing with this weather. And so I just try to spend the next couple of days outside as much as possible to get used to it before the race started, you know?
And that was definitely a challenge. That was probably one of the hardest things I've had to do because it was a completely different experience. I'm all by myself, out there on the road like that, so.
### Dewpoint - Challenging the Weather [00:24:39]
Kevin Chang: [00:24:39]
Talk to our audience a little bit about dewpoint. I mean, for, yeah, for those of us that are trying to figure out how do we run in humidity? How do we run at higher temperatures?
What are some of the things that you're looking at to kind of adjust, because I'm assuming that you adjust your pace depending on what the weather or, you know, what the environment is like.
Sandra Villines: [00:24:58]
I'm a big run by feel. I run, I run by how I feel like don't watch my watch. I'm not a pace watcher. I've learned to not do that just because that's what works for me. And I seem to run better when I'm not. And so my body will just adapt to whatever the environment is. Okay. So now I'm doing, you know, 11 minute mile because that's what I need to do.
Okay. That's fine. I can do that. Because I'm still moving forward at a, you know, with efficiency and that's all that matters when it comes down to them, I'm comfortable. I can move. I'm moving, you know, well, and that's kinda what it comes down to.
But when it comes to the weather, the one thing I learned about out here is everybody. Talks about the heat and humidity. And though there are two, two things that are challenging, but nobody talks about the dewpoint.
So the dewpoint is when it's really wet. So it can be humid, which is like very thick. But then when it's thick and wet and hot, that's like, you know, triple things that you're having to deal with because the more moisture in the air to me, it's just, it drains, like I say, drains your soul.
Cause that's kinda what it feels like. It drains your soul. It, you just kind of have to be conscientious of what, what the weather is going to be like for your race. You know? So it's much different than, you know, when I'm running in California. I mean, yes, there's dry heat and there's heat, but from where we used to live, kind of, you know, close to the bay area to allow the running that I did, you know, it didn't really get too hot.
I was always very comfortable and you know, you could wear a windbreaker or like a, a beanie and you'd be comfortable and here you don't need any of that stuff. Like you just, you don't, it's more minimal.
As far as like, you know, what you wear does a lot more chafing that happens here. And I learned all about that at Daytona 100, cause I had no idea. And you know, I only wear like any kind of compression style short now because I learned my lesson that year.
It was so miserable the last 30 miles, because like literally all my legs and all around, you know, just my legs and my rear end, everything was just so cheap. Like I could barely leave a walk. I was just like death marching, the last 30 miles just to finish, you know, it's like, nobody told me about this.
Oh my God. And so that's like the first thing I always tell everybody is like, if they've never run out here is you need to have some kind of plan to make yourself comfortable because that will definitely, you know, be a hindrance to you. If you're not on top of it,
Kevin Chang: [00:27:18]
Yeah. Well, we often learn our, our biggest lessons from our greatest failures.
Sandra Villines: [00:27:23]
Absolutely And always try and share that with people because it's not like I know it all, but because I've learned from experience, I don't want to see anybody else struggling with that. Like, trust me. Don't want to be there. That is definitely a pain cave you don't want to enter.
### Daytona 100 - Approaching Hydration [00:27:41]
Bertrand Newson: [00:27:41]
Yeah. One of the things we've been speaking about with our athletes and recently had the owner of hammer nutrition on our last podcast is fueling and hydration. Can you take us through that Daytona 100 and really what worked for you from maybe some lessons you learned from previous events that helped you still navigate that 100 miles journey?
Sandra Villines: [00:27:59]
Yeah. At the time I was still experimenting with things. I didn't have the course. Much experience. I mean, now I can speak to it in a different way about what I use, but back then I was using water and tailwind. And Coke has always been like my thing, like, I'll drink Coke a because it's got all that sodium in it.
I mean, it's, I wouldn't drink it any other day, but when I'm running, it's like, you know, just give me an IV of it type of thing. So those are like the three main things I used back then, as far as like hydration goes. And in all honesty, I, I never had any issues with dehydration or anything like that, it was very well hydrated.
I always use two bottles. One is for water. One is for whatever I'm my electrolyte plan is now I use P light noon, like to put the noon in the Coke. I mean, I do all kinds of weird, crazy stuff now. So I mean, and that's the stuff that just seems to work for me. And you just kind of create.
### Current Hydration Strategy [00:28:57]
Kevin Chang: [00:28:57]
Yeah. I mean, I talk to us about, I guess, what your, what your current hydration strategy is. What are you doing today? So you have two bottles. Is that right?
Sandra Villines: [00:29:06]
Yeah, I use two bottles. If I'm able to have, if somebody is cremated, able to care, it has somebody to like support me. Then I will use up to three different things. So ice tea is another thing that I, especially in the dome that caffeine kick and then it's just like ice tea almost became my new water. That was like ice tea and noon with Coke Pedialyte with noon.
So I would just mix stuff up constantly. And it just seems to give me enough, like bite, where it's like, I think it's satisfying. All the things that I'm losing, especially in something that's so continuous for hours and hours and hours.### Intuitive Fuelling [00:29:44]
Kevin Chang: [00:29:44]
One thing that you mentioned that I, I love to hear is just that you run intuitively. I mean, it seems like maybe you are fueling intuitively a little bit as well, that you just know your body so well at this point, after hours and hours. on the road that you.
Sandra Villines: [00:30:00]
Yep.
Kevin Chang: [00:30:00]
I mean, when you started out, did you have like a strategy of like, Hey, I need to take a sip every 20 minutes, 40 minutes sort of thing, or is it just kind of, Hey, when you know, I just kind of do it intuitively.
Sandra Villines: [00:30:12]
So I think it's, to this point now with a little bit more based on into it, the intuitive to activity point in kind of what I'm feeling. I used to be very, I had to like have a plan, like, okay, I need to get a hundred calories every hour. Like I tried to follow a formula and it just became to be too much.
Or maybe I'm giving myself too much. Like I don't really need all that. I think a lot of new owners probably maybe make that mistake because of course you don't want to, you know, you don't want to suffer and be on the other side of that fence, but sometimes it's just too much and you got all kinds of other things that happen.
You got sloshy stomach. Now you got, you can go to the bathroom and you got like all the above, all these other issues. So it's kind of, I really don't think there's any formula, you know, advising somebody now it would be more of a like, make sure that you're doing it as you need to, and you're going along.
And if your body wants something, it probably needs it. You need to give it to give it to yourself, you know, whatever that may be.
Kevin Chang: [00:31:06]
Yeah, that makes sense. And I think, you know what what Brian from hammered nutrition was saying is that oftentimes people are over consuming whether that be water or, or calories and you end up having more problems from the over-consumption side sometimes.
### Becoming an Elite Athlete [00:31:20]
So you finished this a hundred miler, obviously it's your first event. You made a lot of mistakes. When did you start becoming an elite athlete? I mean what, when did you know that you were going to be kind of towards the top of the pack at the top of the pack? When did, when did this start happening?
Sandra Villines: [00:31:36]
So funny because I don't think of myself that way. I've never, and this is so true. I've never looked at a race and like thought like I'm training to like be in the top or I'm training to be in the front. I'm training to be my best I'm training to, to do better than I did last time. And that's always been my mindset, you know?
I Don't Don't pay attention to people around me. I do my own thing. I've always done my own thing. And a lot of times my husband would be creaming. He'll be like, do you want me to tell you where you're at? And I'm like, no, I don't want you to tell me where I'm not. He's like, but I'm like, no. So a lot of times he's like nudged me and it's always been in a positive way, you know, he'll let me know, like, you know, you're, you're on the top, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, what? You know, because I am literally so oblivious. Like I don't, I just don't. I never did. And I think when I, if I do start thinking like that, it changes my mindset. I'm not able to focus. I'm too worried about what's going on. I'm worried about Susie, Joe and whatever, and that's not what it was ever about for me.
So it was kind of like I had to rethink why I started doing this, what it means to me, why I'm doing this, you know, to inspire other people still. And it has to be, you know, the only competition is myself. No, can I be, can I be better than the last
so when you say that it makes me chuckle because I don't think of myself that way. I never really have that in myself that way. And don't get me wrong. I worked really hard for that, you know, female win at Badwater. And the time, and I get this a lot and it's probably why I don't bring it up because when you tell somebody you want to raise, what's the first thing they ask you, oh, what was your time?
You know, and it wasn't like, it was a sub 30 hour finish my God. It was like a 34 43, you know, 34 hours and 43 minutes and change finished. You know, the conditions that year were very, very unusual. It was very humid, you know, that valleys, not a humid place, but it was just very bizarre, very bizarre year.
And once again, I was just, I went in, I did my thing, like this was just, you're gonna, you're gonna adjust to the weather. You're going to, you've been in this before. You know what this is about, you know, You're going to go through a lot of phases in a race of that, you know, on Debbie, it's just going to, you're going to change, you know, you're going to walk, we need to walk.
You're gonna run when you can run and you're going to keep up your hydration and nutrition so you can keep moving forward. That's the main thing you just have to keep moving. No matter what it is, you can walk, but you need to walk with a purpose.
Bertrand Newson: [00:34:05]
Was 2017, your first Badwater. When was your first Badwater?
Sandra Villines: [00:34:08]
No, 2016 was my
Bertrand Newson: [00:34:10]
Okay. And how did that experience.
Sandra Villines: [00:34:12]
It was good. I feel like I went in really well trained. I feel like I had a really good race on my, put it all out there. And ironically the, the times I, for both years, I believe are pretty similar, you know it was pretty consistent. It's just, you know, the weather on that second year was very, very challenging.
But yeah, that's I was, I was shocked. I think, stunned that, you know, when they were telling me that I won, I don't think I could like stop crying. I was like, wait, what? Like know, no, it was just like, somebody like me doesn't win a race like that.
Like, I was just happy to finish it, you know, and, and be able to, you know, move around after to me, like, if you've done, if you've trained off of your race and you can move around the next day, like to me, your training was spot on, like you did everything, right. You know, it's just recovery now. So that it, yeah, it took a while for that to set in.
Kevin Chang: [00:34:59]
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### Badwater - Challenges [00:35:10]
Yeah. I mean, you got to talk to us about That race. I mean, 2017, I'm sure you came in and probably, I mean, not too many people expected much from me from the race. As you mentioned, and then, you know, what, what were the weather conditions like? What was the field like?
And talk to us about, I mean, I guess, were there any points in time, just like other races that you felt belabored or having difficulty. And what are some of the things that, I guess that gets you through some of those moments and any stories that you may have from that, from that year in particular?
Sandra Villines: [00:35:40]
That race. I honestly, I don't remember a ton.
I really don't. I just remember, I remember it was super windy yeah. In the beginning. And it was like the wind, it was like a blow dryer in your face. But the air was like moist, which is not typical. Like it's usually very dry the field. It was a great field. A lot of, you know, elite people, I was in the middle wave, which suited me fine for, you know, what I was, what I had trained to do.
Yeah. I just remember that first it's like 18, 19 miles to your first stop. And that's back to the ranch. You start at the, at the basin. I just remember thinking, my God it's so humid out here. I couldn't, I couldn't, I was like, I feel like I was in Florida. I'm like, what is this? This is so bizarre. You know?
And I was just telling my team, I'm just like, just, I needed extra, like hydration. Like I dunno what it was like lots of salt and, and things like that. And I mean, I, I feel like I was moving. Okay. I felt like I, I didn't really struggle until maybe we got to a Panamint and of course Panamint usually that value where you, you, you come into and it's flat and it's usually like extremely hot there naturally where the ground is like on fire.
I mean, you can feel like the heat coming up through your shoes. It's like it's just a bizarre feeling. He's trying to stay on the little white line. So it doesn't, you know, you don't feel as much heat penetrating through your feet.
Bertrand Newson: [00:37:03]
Wow.
Kevin Chang: [00:37:04]
Wow.
Sandra Villines: [00:37:05]
I did have, I had a really good support team that year and the gal that was pacing me up over a couple of the mountains.
They did a really good job keeping me cool. So, you know, a lot of ice. And then she was just like, with the, basically like a water hose behind me, like one of those things you like pump pesticide around your garden with, you know, keeping me like wet the whole time. So I wouldn't overheat. I mean, that was like a huge, huge help for me.
You know, I use a lot of ice. I like to still keep my body cool. So that was like a huge win. So I think taking care of myself in the first half and, you know, being conservative, you know, was, was a gain for me on the second half, you know, once we got over father Crowley, you know, I was able to move pretty well still.
And you know, I started passing people and that's kinda, that's usually where, you know, you, you take it easy, you know, when people are walking or.
Kevin Chang: [00:37:57]
Yeah. I mean, we tell our athletes all the time, you, you can't win the race and the first half, but you can certainly lose it In the first half. And I think potentially. The way that you run. So intuitively probably helped you quite a bit, because my guess is, you know, maybe some of the elite athletes had a plan going into that race and maybe they went out even just a little bit too fast for what, what happened throughout that whole, throughout that whole race.
At what point did you know that you were kind of creeping up or getting a faster time that people just start reeling? Like you said, you started reeling people.
Sandra Villines: [00:38:32]
It starts putting a bug in my ear. So it's like, you want to know what you're at and I was like no!
That's yeah. That, and it was, it was towards the later, you know, end of the race when the, of course that would happened. And I just, I I've never paid much attention to that because like I said, I don't put myself in that category. I never really had. Not, you know, what makes me feel good about running?
It makes me really happy if you're there, you might as well go for it.
Bertrand Newson: [00:39:01]
Right. Exactly.
Sandra Villines: [00:39:03]
that was kind of way. And my coach at the time had jumped on my crew. And so he was, you know, letting me know like statistically where I was and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And here are the odds and dah, dah, dah. And, you know, from that point on like that last, I think it was 18 or so hours.
Like I, you know, worked my tail off, you know, to get there. I mean, like I said, the time isn't, you know, like a sub 30 or anything, like, oh my God. Wow, that's fantastic. But you know, I worked really hard for that time and I'm proud to say that I, you know, I finished with that time that year and that's, you know, what it took. So.
### Keeping Focused [00:39:41]
Bertrand Newson: [00:39:41]
And what's the mental focus Sandy during, you know, again, it's, we're not talking about a 5k 10 K half marathon. Marathon, we're talking about 135 miles and one of the hottest places on earth and you're in contention. Take us there. H w how are you, you know, keeping yourself focused and not letting the, the gravity of the situation overwhelm.
Sandra Villines: [00:40:06]
I guess I just have this weird uncanny, like way of just like disassociating and like, just like staring straight ahead and just like zoning out. Like I can just totally zone out and I'll just stare straight ahead, which is probably a weird thing to, to hear. But in all honesty, that's what I do. I listened to music with one earbud and so most of my music and playlist are set to a cadence as well.
So almost like a metronome. So I just let my body fall into that, whatever it is. And. That's usually what keeps me going,
Kevin Chang: [00:40:39]
Do you have a specific cadence that you, that you try to find music for?
Sandra Villines: [00:40:43]
Oh, I have a closet full of cadences. Now. I got all kinds of gates and all kinds of weird runs and things that I do. And I, yeah, and it's, it's ironic because that's just some of the stuff that I caught myself doing to jump ahead a little bit at the dome in 2019.
And I don't know if it was because of the loop route that it was, but I discovered I had taught myself how to do all these different types of like foot, foot cadences and our movement.
Like, I don't know, it's it became a part of my routine. So, I mean, I didn't do any of that at bat the water. I don't think I had learned any of that or taught myself any of that at the time, but it was just a loss in my thoughts. Listen to my music, keep moving forward. Yeah. That's, there's really not much more to it than that.