Wonder Woman Nicole Shehadi Varnell on Motherhood, Breast Cancer, and Crushing PRs

### [00:00:00] Guest Quote

[00:00:00] **Nicole Varnell:**
And I just said, you know, I think I'm going to see if I can run farther than a half marathon.

So I just went out and like, if I could do... survive the loss of my mom, I, at a young age, if I could survive a double mastectomy by choice, like who does that? This was before Angelina Jolie did it. So she, you know, I think people know she had that, but I did it before she had it.

And so then I just, I went farther and I felt okay. And then I just kept running and I signed up for the San Francisco marathon in 2014.

### [00:00:35] Episode Intro

[00:00:35] **Kevin Chang:**
Hello and welcome to the RaceMob podcast. This is episode number 64.

I'm Kevin entrepreneur technology and fitness nerd. And I'm joined by the head coach of RaceMob and master motivator. The incomparable Bertrand Newson.

### [00:00:50] Introducing Nicole Varnell

[00:00:50] **Kevin Chang:**
Hey, RaceMob crew on today's episode, we have wonder woman, Nicole Shehadi Varnell.

I met this mother of three a year ago at a Hammertime workout, and man, she just crushed me. Little did I know a year later she'd be hitting new PRS, participating in competitive triathlons, and placing in numerous races.

She's also going for the 50 marathons in 50 states challenge, and you'll be able to hear about it in this episode. She thanks Coach "B" for the guidance over the year. But in truth, we know Nicole has a motor that just won't quit.

But we're just so fortunate to really hear Nicole's heroine story. It's certainly an emotional one full of ups and downs, and we're just grateful to get to know her on a more personal level.

You're in for a real treat this episode guys all the show notes can be found online at RaceMob dot com slash podcast and without further ado here's our conversation

[00:01:47] **Bertrand Newson:**
Hello, RaceMob community. We are in for a real treat today. Nicole Shahani Varnell. We call her wonder woman for many reasons. She's a healthcare professional. She's a mother of three wife and someone who was always finding the time to put in the work and always willing to share her knowledge multiple time, major marathon finisher, Boston qualifier, running in 2022.

### [00:01:47] Start of the Interview

[00:02:13] **Bertrand Newson:**
And she'll share her first Boston marathon experience with us, which is very unique. Welcomed.

[00:02:20] **Nicole Varnell:**
Thank you.

### [00:02:23] Nicole's Origin Story

[00:02:23] **Kevin Chang:**
Awesome. So, I mean, Nicole, obviously I've known you for about a year now. You know, been hanging out with you at Hammertime. We've obviously been following your long journey, not only in running, but also in triathlons. So tell us a little bit about how you got started in sports. Tell us a little bit about your story.

[00:02:40] **Nicole Varnell:**
Well so I was never a great athlete or anything like that. So in high school, Just, I never played team sports. As a kid, my parents were much more there were teachers actually, and much more academic focused, so you get to high school and I decided, well, I should play some sports. Cause you know, it's good to do all these things.

And so what can you do when you're not an athlete? You can actually sign up for track because you don't get cut.

So I joined the track team. I actually was on the swim team as well. I did do a little swimming growing up. But. I was never a superstar. I started running hurdles and I ran, you know, different events.

I was, actually wasn't too bad in my freshman year. I went to like the county, the regional finals. I was on the mile relay. I love the 400. But I do remember being there and my parents were very grateful parents, but they weren't there. They didn't come to watch. And my mom had said, well, you better get home in time because you have a chemistry test tomorrow. So we're, you know, pushing the academics, not the athletes.

So did okay. but then after high school, I didn't really focus on any of that. Had probably more of a life, traumatic event. And after that kind of spurred me into running, for probably some therapy. So my mom had been diagnosed with breast cancer when I was a senior in high school.

Actually I'd had another death when I was 14. A boy I loved he was killed in a car accident.

So kind of been dealing with a lot of grief things along the way. You know, I was transitioning to go off to college. I went to I ended up actually, I was supposed to, I was going to go to UCLA and I ended up changing my plan because my mom was sick.

And so I ended up staying up here in which So I could come home a lot, but then she died while I was in college. So that was a very, you know, difficult time. and for a lot of time after that, I wasn't really exercising during that time, a lot of back and forth home and back and forth and grief. And so after, just sort of fell into running. I did a few 10 Ks met Todd. We were running a little bit, and then we got a flyer for San Jose fit. After we did the mercury news 10 K, which dates me, you know, and we're like, oh, well let's just join because why not? But we won't run a marathon. And we joined and that's where it all started.

### [00:05:27] From Coping to Boston

[00:05:27] **Kevin Chang:**
You mentioned that you used running as kind of a way to either cope or a way to... can you talk a little bit about, you know, what running meant to you? Yeah

[00:05:37] **Nicole Varnell:**
And I will, you know, I'll say it's something that has evolved with time. I've had probably a lot of life experiences that are a little heavier. so, you know, when my mom was sick I really wasn't doing anything.

And I was just very, you know, grief-stricken trying to keep up with school. I'd come home midweek every weekend, you know to help her be with her and, probably put on a little weight, not bad or anything, but just was not, I didn't feel good. And then she passed away very grief, grief overload.

And running, at that time was just helpful just to get out that fresh air. And it just, I think as I've gotten older, I had to go through other losses. My dad actually died in 2018. And then, and then my mother-in-law died 10 months later. And then my dad's girlfriend of 18 years also died a month after that.

So it's not funny at all, but it was a lot of, of loss and triggering a lot of other, you know, from earlier life. But I do remember, you know, after my, my Jack died, you know, just, I got up and ran 18 miles the next morning. So, you know, it's just by that time, I've been more seasoned runner too, but you know, running, I have done a lot of running alone.

I, I mean, I love Too Legit, of course, and I love when I used to run with San Jose fit, I love groups, but the things you can process when you're running by yourself with your music or wherever your thoughts can take you has really helped me with migrate. So that was part of it.

I had another situation that kind of threw me back into marathoning. I have a long history of running, but I had a pause and then I came back to it for another reason which I can share if you want.

[00:07:37] **Bertrand Newson:**
Yes, please do.

[00:07:38] **Nicole Varnell:**
So, you know, to go back, you know I started marathoning, so John, I got this down as a fit thing. I was doing actually my pharmacy residency, so I was getting my doctor of pharmacy and, as I was doing my residency we decided we would train for a marathon because I had no time. But anyway.

[00:07:59] **Kevin Chang:**
Yeah...

[00:08:01] **Nicole Varnell:**
Without a lot of, yeah I, I probably wasn't as focused on my training.

I was very busy with that. But we've finished our first marathon a little bit after I finished my residency, but.

[00:08:11] **Kevin Chang:**
Which, which marathon?

[00:08:12] **Nicole Varnell:**
Silicon valley marathon. My first

marathon, it was, I think in 2000. And, it was horrible.

[00:08:20] **Kevin Chang:**
Why lot was it horrible? What, what happened?

[00:08:27] **Nicole Varnell:**
Well we signed up thinking, oh yeah, I probably could do a four hour marathon. no, it was actually, you know, add an hour. And I was nauseous. I overdid the goos. I didn't, you know, I didn't train perfectly well, which you know, that's fine. But I remember Todd towards the end, he ran with me and he was like trying to massage my shoulders.

Oh, it's okay. They'll be okay. And I'm like, don't touch me. I hate

You You know, all this stuff.

[00:08:56] **Kevin Chang:**
Okay.

[00:08:57] **Nicole Varnell:**
I mean, it was my, I was the more of the runner. I got him to run. He was a cyclist, but he's there trying to help me. I hated him. And then Tom Kaiser sat, who was the head of San Jose fit, who was also a really great coach had that he would run back and help runners finish.

And he came up to me after I just probably, you know, was really mean to Todd and it's like, oh, I'll help you get in, I'm like, oh, thank you. You're so nice. Oh, you're great. You know?

Yeah. So I got through that. I finished in a 4:59 because I always liked to, you know, beat

that something right. there. Yeah. And then I swore I would never do another marathon again. So then

[00:09:39] **Bertrand Newson:**
Famous last words.

[00:09:40] **Nicole Varnell:**
Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

[00:09:43] **Kevin Chang:**
I think we've all been there too. It's like, oh, never again then. Yeah.

[00:09:48] **Nicole Varnell:**
Then I think I signed up for one and maybe calendar national, I think a few months

later, a couple months later. And that was even worse. There was like a storm and I ended up getting a little hypothermic and I did worse and who's was just, you know, my second marathon a couple months after Silicon 'valley. And then I swore I would never do it again. And then I did Silicon valley again, I got a little ''better. and then I think I had four under my belt.

Then I had my daughter, Emma and I said, well, I'll do one more. So I did one more after she was born. And then after that,
I swore I would never do them again. And, and then I actually didn't for a long time. So I she was born in 2003, maybe I did it in 2004 and then I just went to half marathon. So I had two more kids working.

My dad was well, he was okay then, but you know, just very busy, but I did a lot of half-marathons. So that was fun. Then you know, this is where you know, a little embarrassed to share maybe or not. I don't know.

You know, my mom died of breast cancer, so that was one thing I just had decided. even before I had kids that I was not going to die of breast cancer she was young, she was premenopausal and she had a more aggressive kind of breast cancer,

you know, it's, you know, a lot of them are treatable, but hers is still more aggressive and a lot of people, they can make it, but some don't survive still.

And so I decided that I would have a double mastectomy before I turned 40. So, you know, I had my kids and I turned 39. I was like, oh crap. I guess I gotta do it. And so I did, I had a double mastectomy and that was in 2012 cause actually on election day. And I don't know if I can get political, but I, I and into surgery and I woke up with like, please like Barack Obama when don't want to die, but I want to wake up knowing he won the election as

though luckily that happened.

But that was a very you know, very difficult thing to do, even

though I knew I had to do it. Cause I knew I couldn't live with myself if something happened and I got breast cancer and you know, just, even if I could treat it, I just couldn't live with it. It would be too hard with kids and everything.

So, so after that that was 2012. I had, a lot of surgeries. It was kind of it was great, but it was. Because I was active and running ahead of some complications and blah, blah, blah.

But in 2000, must have been maybe early 2014. I just was out running one day and it was really rainy. And I just said, you know, I think I'm going to see if I can run farther than a half marathon.

So I just went out and like, if I could do survive the loss of my mom, I, at a young age, if I could survive a double mastectomy by choice, like who does that? This was before Angelina Jolie did it. So she, you know, I think people know she had that, but I did it before she had it.

And so then I just I went farther and I felt okay. And then I just kept running and I signed up for the San Francisco marathon in 2014. And actually my time at that point was I think my PR before was a 4 25 for my marathon. But then I did San Francisco and I did a 4:21. I was

like, oh, I'm a lot older.

And I'm just out here by myself training. And I beat my time for when I was younger. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:27] **Bertrand Newson:**
And, and of course it was very hilly as well.

[00:13:30] **Nicole Varnell:**
yes, yes. I didn't feel good. I mean, but I got through it, so that was good. I remember some leg cramping on a curve and like seizing up a little bit and going, oh God, how am I ever going to finish this?

But Todd was out there with all the kids. And so I'm like a better finish this. So so then I I think then I decided I would not quit marathoning forever. And I then signed up for, but I waited a whole year, which is not my, you don't know me in doing that Coach, but now I waited a whole

year and I signed up for San Francisco in 2015, and then I got a little faster, not much I was like a four 19.

And then I think I decided to sign up for another one. I kept just getting a little faster. I'm like, Hey, Hey.

And then gotcha. I think Chicago in 2016 and I broke a four-hour marathon. I'm like, wow, wait a minute. How did I go from that to that? I think maybe I could qualify for Boston.

And so that's kind of how I just kept working at it and trying and trying to get faster. But I was not an athlete like to begin with at all. I don't consider myself that at all.

### [00:14:46] Results of Trining

[00:14:46] **Bertrand Newson:**
Nicole. What do you attribute your changes in your training? What were you learning marathon to marathon to marathon? What were you changing? Was it volume? Was it the, the intensity?

[00:14:59] **Nicole Varnell:**
Yes!

[00:15:00] **Bertrand Newson:**
What were something...

[00:15:01] **Nicole Varnell:**
It was probably everything. I was more consistent. I was I was doing a lot of strength training too, so I was taking some. It was a member of 24 hour fitness. And I did strength training. I have a wonderful instructor, Christina meno, who unfortunately moved to Texas.

But she helped with cardio strength, trained burpees and body combat body pump, body bootcamp, and you know, pushups, pushups, pushups, all these things I incorporated. And I think getting my upper body stronger, getting my all that better.

In addition to consistency with, you know, running and doing more, probably not sleep, I didn't sleep better. That's bad. But, the other thing is putting in a lot of the work and I never missed, you know, I mentioned I had this double mastectomy one day after my surgery, one of my multiple surgeries, I had drains. Cause you can fill the fluid and I was running the next day.

[00:16:00] **Kevin Chang:**
Wow.

[00:16:01] **Nicole Varnell:**
Yeah, I was at her class the next day. People didn't know this, but I just was like, it's part of what I have to do. And I think just not, I have really no reasons not to go unless maybe I was vomiting or something. But I, I never missed a day.

### [00:16:19] Training to Return

[00:16:19] **Kevin Chang:**
I mean, it talks to us a little bit. I, you know, there's, there's so many people that say, yeah, I'm never going to do that again. I'm never going to do the marathon again. And then actually getting back into shape and...

And from a half marathon to a marathon, it's a, it's a pretty big jump. I mean, it's not, it's, it's, it's definitely not like just going a little bit, you know, further or whatnot. Those last 10 K of a marathon can be, can be pretty grueling.

So I guess, how did you train for that first marathon back? Did you have a training program for it?

[00:16:50] **Nicole Varnell:**
No, I think I just use my experience with San Jose fit and, you know, part of the problem. Like I was, I would have stayed with that group. It was a great, you know, marathon training group, but with three kids they're just, I could, and they are all. Busy kids like soccer, basketball, every, every sport.

And then there's three of them. And I have no really parents to help me. You know, my dad was declining and no mom, my mother-in-law also had pulmonary fibrosis. So, you know. I mean there, I mean, don't get me wrong. They were, they would help in certain ways. But I can't just, Hey, can you help me this? Can you take the kids? Can you do this?

So, and I'm a working mom and so I don't want to miss all their stuff. So if they have a tournament at, you know, starts early somewhere, I have to fit my run in. So I have to go at, I mean, I was known to circle my block for 12 miles starting at 3:30 in the morning.

[00:17:47] **Kevin Chang:**
Wow. Wow. Yeah.

[00:17:50] **Nicole Varnell:**
so there's no groups at that time, Santa Fe Fit, it does not need at 3:30 in the morning. So so a lot was on my own. I did have a friend my friend, Heather, and I ran also with some neighborhood people, but no one was marathon training. So my friend Heather would sometimes meet me for part of the run which was helpful and keeps you accountable.

But a lot of it's just getting up early and just knowing that's what I wanted to do. So sticking with it.

### [00:18:23] Balancing Life Aspects

[00:18:23] **Kevin Chang:**
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, marathon training is, I mean, you have to be dedicated for sure.

And you gotta hit your long runs. You gotta hit the multiple runs in between in order to make race day you know, doable. Oh yeah. I mean, I guess that was one of the questions that I was going to ask you is just like with mother of three kids, how did you actually find time to do the training?

And it sounds like. I mean, just you're you are a motivated, driven able to do what it takes time. And, and coach B is, is nodding. I mean, our audience can't see.

[00:18:57] **Nicole Varnell:**
Well,

[00:18:58] **Bertrand Newson:**
I mean the drive and that's what it is. I mean, one to have an incredibly supportive family and

[00:19:05] **Nicole Varnell:**
Todd is great. Yes. Yes. He couldn't do it. I mean, I couldn't have left kids in home sleeping. Well, I might've. Cause I was circling the. So that was okay. I could probably cut a fire or something if there.

But, but then other times I started venturing out as I got more confident, I would just kind of not be afraid to run in the dark, which I really am happy about. I never, would've gotten to Boston if I wasn't afraid to run in the dark by myself. That's for sure.

But yeah, definitely had Todd supportive. We used to run with jogger strollers too back in the earlier days. But that was more with a half marathon tightening, but I think just having Todd available, you know, being willing to, you know.

I would take the mornings, I would get up early and he would, you know, help get them ready if you know, cause then I'd have to rush to work, so there wasn't always a lot of time, but that's basically early mornings, not enough sleep.

### [00:19:59] The Chicago Marathon

[00:19:59] **Kevin Chang:**
We definitely want to get to the stories on both the marathon majors and then qualifying for Boston. So I'm not sure which happened first. You mentioned Chicago is one of those

early races that you did. So I'm a walk us through some of those.

[00:20:14] **Nicole Varnell:**
yeah. Chicago 2016, in fact, Todd was running at the time. I think we had friends watching our kids. We flew out to Chicago for a weekend because that's how it rolls when you have kids and work. And we literally fly out, you know I think for that one probably Friday and then came back Sunday.

but, that was one of my favorite marathons
because we're both running since then. Todd has heard as me and everything, but anyway that was where I broke a four-hour marathon. And I just think that was like one of my best moments. I got a 3:55

[00:20:47] **Bertrand Newson:**
Awesome.

[00:20:48] **Nicole Varnell:**
And it just was where I was like, wow, how did this slow it, nothing wrong with slow, but you know, 4:59, 5 plus hour for my second marathon, how did I get better and I actually broke a four-hour marathon?

I think it was shocking to me that I could do that. Cause I don't, I did not consider myself a runner at that time. I

just, I just looked like someone doing it or whatever. And that sounds silly because of course I'm running a marathon and so in the runner, but, you know, I never thought of myself as an athlete, a good athlete.

So I think when I broke the four hour, just it, I was so happy. In fact, I wore my medal home on the airplane, which,

[00:21:33] **Bertrand Newson:**
That's the way to do

[00:21:34] **Nicole Varnell:**
yes, yes. Which now I have done ever since. And the

reason I love this is because someone yeah. So we had all this flight trouble or fight the engine, died on the ground, on the ground, but then we're panicking.

Like the kids have school tomorrow having to go home. eventually got home that night. We got the plane that fixed or whatever. And but I had my metal on and some lady came up to me. She like, are you an Olympian?

And I, I wish I would have said yes, but I did not. I'm like, no, I just ran a marathon, nothing special. Like I didn't win, but I'm so excited. And so now I wear it every time after a race on my flight home whenever I'm flying somewhere.

[00:22:19] **Kevin Chang:**
That's awesome. That's it?

[00:22:21] **Nicole Varnell:**
So about one day I wear it.

[00:22:24] **Bertrand Newson:**
And Chicago, what a great place to PR that course, the city, the crowd support. Talk about that. It's just different.

It is. I mean, you've run New York,

[00:22:33] **Nicole Varnell:**
Yes. I've run New York, Chicago. Everyone is so friendly. There's someone on every, every second of the way cheering you on you know, trapping signs for power. It's a beautiful course. It was a beautiful day. It's flat, you know, it's so it's all these wonderful things, but I think the spirit of Chicago is just so, so friendly and everyone's so happy.

And so then you feel happy and then you run better. So that was one of my favorites. In fact, I was supposed to do it somehow. So then you get to my advanced years and I'm signing up all the time for marathons.

And I didn't even know that I didn't even remember signing up for the Chicago lottery. I must've just done it on a whim one morning and probably was asleep, running or something. And and then I got an email that I got in I'm like, what?

So I was supposed to do it in 20 whatever 20, 20. Of course it was canceled. So now it's now this week, or this year, it's the same weekend as Boston, which I'll be doing in October.

So now I'll do it in 2022, I guess. So I was able to defer, so I'll go back. So that was my first major.

### [00:23:40] Qualifying for Boston

[00:23:40] **Kevin Chang:**
That's awesome. And then from 3:55 marathon, or how, how fast do you need to go to qualify for Boston?

[00:23:47] **Nicole Varnell:**
So I needed to do a 3:45. So that was, you know, October of 2016, then I did California international in December and then. Drop more time. And then I did Phoenix. And I was like, I, I think it was just above a 3:45.

And so I was like, oh wow, I'm going to, you know, I could do this. And then in Phoenix, the 2000 17th of February, that's where I did a three 40 and I qualified for Boston. Yeah. So I was, I was ecstatic.

I'd also done big Sur at some point along the way. And I broke a four hour marathon probably after Chicago.

[00:24:26] **Kevin Chang:**
In that

hilly.

[00:24:28] **Bertrand Newson:**
Wow.

[00:24:29] **Nicole Varnell:**
I think it was in April. That was

a confidence booster.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was feeling pretty like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm so old. I mean, not that old, but I was in my mid forties at this point, you know, and I was getting faster than when I was in my thirties or, you know, or 20 late twenties and.

So just goes to show, like it's not all about, you know, age it's how much work you put in. and what your, I mean, I know at some point I will not be running assassin. I will, I am going to be but yeah, so that's where Phoenix is where I qualified for Boston. In fact, I have a Phoenix tattoo on my wrist for many reasons. One of them is because that's where I qualified for Boston.

### [00:25:16] Tips for the Audience

[00:25:16] **Kevin Chang:**
Share some tips with our audience, because we know, you know, you got faster during that time period, probably training changed quite a bit. Maybe diet change, maybe recovery changed.

And I think that you continue to get faster because I've seen, I've seen some really, really fast times in the last year or so.

So share some, of those performance tips with our audience.

[00:25:35] **Nicole Varnell:**
Yeah. So, you know, just also working in healthcare, I work in our heart failure clinic at Kaiser and I do also like diabetes management. So I see a lot of the other side of... And it's not only for diet, obviously, you know, heart disease can be from multiple things, diabetes too.

But I see a lot of obesity. I see inactivity having my mom die young, and working in cardiology, diet became a big, important thing. Obviously we can't control everything in life that happens to us, but I can control somewhat of my diet and I can control my exercise. And trying to just stay healthy as best I can.

So I did end up for a while, just I was part of this complimentary alternative medicine group where we talked a lot about plant-based diet. And so I really got into plant-based diet, not vegan. That's a little too much having kids and too hard. People do it, but I, I was not able to do that and, and I didn't really want to.

but, the plant-based I really thought into that more. I eat a lot of vegetables. I really think that helped me with good energy. The better you eat, the more energy you have.

I do now incorporate a little more fish rarely chicken, but a little more fish. But I'm pretty try to eat a very " healthy diet". I have my moments and I have my drinks here and there and all these things, but that was one thing that I think helped.

And then of course I started with, you know, two legit. I got to do the track workout. I had done the year before with San Jose fit. They had a evening track workout but evenings are just a little bit harder.

So I was looking for something in the morning and I found it. I think Kate LaBarbera she would post about it on her social media. And I was like, what's this too legit. I really think I should look into that.

And then I think it was like November or December, I saw there was a website and I looked into it and saw the track workout. And then I joined in January and... and then the pandemic hit.

But, oh, well. But I got a few months of running the track workout in the morning, which was great. I loved the 5:30 time. And all that speed work is really also, I think has helped my times. I mean, I was, I will say I was fast. I say fast because I still have a hard time saying I'm fast and...

[00:28:08] **Bertrand Newson:**
You were fast. me make, let me clarify for the audience.

[00:28:11] **Kevin Chang:**
Yeah.

[00:28:11] **Nicole Varnell:**
No, I mean...

[00:28:13] **Bertrand Newson:**
In January or February? You were coming off of, I believe a 5k PR in the Campbell, right? The Valentine's day run. Right. So yeah, you came in with some momentum.

[00:28:22] **Nicole Varnell:**
I did, like if I had, I had done the hot chocolate, the Kaiser 10K and I got all my fastest times right there.

So it wasn't that I, and I say again, I, it's hard for me to say it. I never was fast. And then I thought faster and it's all relative. I mean, I'm not an Olympian unfor.... I mean, even though one person thinks I am in Chicago, but, you know for my age I feel pretty good.

And but the track workout is so much fun and I love just going out there and pushing myself every Wednesday. I know it's not a race. I know it's not a competition. It's not any of that, but for me, it's where I can go and push myself and, and see what I can do for my own personal reasons. I, a lot of it is of course from, you know.

I go back to my mom dying, you know, I was back in school right after she died. I had, I had to take a couple of incompletes, but I ended up finishing that semester. You know, one of the things my mom had said, don't fall apart when I die, you know, she knew she was dying. Of course.

So I was back then, you know, dealing with loss and I kept going and, you know, that's kind of the only choices you have.

And so to me to go out to the track, it's just, I've been doing this so long. Just keep going, you just push. And so I love going out there on Wednesday morning. Even sometimes like yesterday, I thought I was going to throw up at one, point but...

But I still like it.

[00:29:51] **Kevin Chang:**
I think that's a great tip for our audience, you know even if the majority of your runs are by yourself or individual, or, you know, you enjoy the long runs on your own finding one group and even one workout a week, those people can push you. It can be a little bit more fun, a little bit more challenging.

You know, if you can find a track group or a run group all the better, if you can't find one, there are bootcamps or other things that you may be able to supplement your workout a little bit. And, you know, just having that little push I think is really nice.

[00:30:22] **Nicole Varnell:**
It really is. And you know, as much as I like to run by myself, I, I love this group. You know, go now on Thursdays, Raj and arena and Selma. And John, you know, there's a bunch of people who do a little
hill run.

I try to make some of the weekend runs. It's sometimes harder. Even though my kids are older, I am trying to be, you know, not gone just because I'm already working and all these things.

So but anyway yeah, I love the group, so thank you. Wow.