[00:00:00] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
So, you know, that's a mistake that allowed of, you know, white people make in a white majority country. It's like, oh, there's us and there's everyone else. Uh, No,
no, it's not like that. You know? Diversity is diverse. And so I'm not just talking about like necessarily you know, ethically or geographically, it's like ages experience, like everything you spoke to, like, you know, you name it.
[00:00:33] **Kevin Chang:**
Hello and welcome to the RaceMob podcast. This is episode number 77.
I'm Kevin entrepreneur technology and fitness nerd. And I'm joined by the head coach of RaceMob and master motivator at the incomparable Bertrand new.
We are so thankful to be able to call Matt Fitzgerald, a mentor and friends. We've been working with this bestselling author and true pillar of the endurance community for the past year. And he's helped us in so many aspects of our business.
In this episode, we talk about the creation of the 80 20 foundation and the coaches of color initiative, a foundation, which were very closely tied to. We talk about the principles of 80 20 training and its proliferation to other sports which had about math, latest book, a deep dive into the principles of pacing.
We also talk about long haul COVID a disease that has been absolutely devastating to Matt. All the show notes can be found Online at RaceMob dot com slash podcast and without further ado, here's our conversation.
Hey, there RaceMob audience. We are so excited to welcome. So the podcast, the one and only Matt Fitzgerald.
Welcome back to the RaceMob podcast.
[00:01:41] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Good to be back. There are actually many Matt Fitzgerald's I've I've tracked it. I've tracked a few others
[00:01:49] **Kevin Chang:**
and only in my eyes. Yeah, you are the woman only. So thank you so much for joining us again. I know that you were one of the first RaceMob podcast guests that we had on the show, and it's so fantastic to have, I mean, you know, your best-selling author.
You're involved in so many different initiatives across the running world both on, you know, the, the authorship side, but also on the coaching side, we know 80 20 is really one of these programs that so many, few people, people have been following some great stuff. And then obviously we want it to get into the coaches of color initiative amongst one of the many, many initiatives that you've been part of.
And you know, we know that our very own coach B is a big part of that initiative. I'm a part of the initiative behind the scenes as well. And we've been making steady progress throughout. So welcome again to the program. Matt let's, let's go ahead and dive right in to coaches of color, because I think that's what a lot of people are interested in learning.
[00:02:46] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Awesome. Yeah, it feels like a, just like a family reunion here. We're all, we're all on the same team here. It's pretty
[00:02:55] **Kevin Chang:**
cool. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I know behind the scenes, we've been having several conversations since this last year, even. I mean, Coach "B" and you filmed a video to introduce coaches of color, not too long ago.
So you've been making trips here out here to the bay area and, and meeting up behind the scenes.
[00:03:11] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Yep. Yeah. A lot of plotting and planning. You can only do so many podcasts, but yeah, we, we, we do, we do talk when the camera's off.
[00:03:21] **Kevin Chang:**
That's right. Well, I mean, talk to us about coaches of color. We know you're deeply involved in the organization.
This kind of was a brainchild of yours came about from yourself. Yeah. Talk to us about the program in general.
[00:03:33] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Yeah, I want to say actually my memory is faulty, but it might've been my, my 80, 20 endurance business partner, David warden, who initially kind of had the idea And so, and I think he would gladly take credit, but, but either, either way, like I was like, we should kind of share the same, like, you know, the same motivations behind it.
And you know, the idea is, is very simple and straight forward. You know, Well, I love endurance sports. I think that, you know, endurance sports only become richer as they become more diverse. And we historically just haven't been where we want to be in that regard, at least, you know, in north America where we're, where we are.
Um, So coaches, the coaches of color initiative is just like, you know, it's not going to solve the entire problem. But it is like a very focused, close to home initiative where we're trying to create, you know, meaningful support and opportunities for people of color who aspire to be endurance coaches.
So, you know, the model is. Call an apprenticeship grant. So it's, you know, we want to have, you know, like, I mean, there's, there is money involved a $1,000 monthly stipend for the period of a year for at least the first grant recipient. But, but we want it to be really a soup to nuts mentorship or apprenticeship program where, you know, by the time this person gets out, the other side of it.
They're in a completely different place. You know, they've got training, they've got a network, they've got experience, they've got credentials, you know, they're ready to go. And the support won't end there, you know, the, the, you know, the, the formal, you know, apprenticeship will, will, but I mean, you know, the idea, the vision anyway is for this, you know, to just be an ongoing Uh, sort of thing.
Well, I
[00:05:22] **Kevin Chang:**
mean, man, I know that you know, while you're a Caucasian male, you have dealt with racism in the past. We, we know you know, that this is a very personal initiative for yourself. Can, can you kind of dive into that a little bit with our.
[00:05:38] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Yeah. I mean uh, yeah, I, I've never been the personal object of racism in my recollection, but I know I am married to an African-American woman on the talkie and I met in 1997 uh, married in 2001.
And you know, I live in Northern California and even though I'm from the east coast, so my, my family is all spread out. The talking to my wife grew up in Oakland um, which is not too terribly far from, from where I sit. No, I've been around her family a lot and you know, there they are my family. And so yeah, when, when, you know, when racism is in the news or when, you know, she and I together have experienced stuff, that's, you know, not beyond the pale, but you know, isn't cool.
You know, it is personal for me, you know, I guess, you know, more than it was. I mean, I grew up in New Hampshire, literally the whitest state in America. So like, yeah, it's the stuff. It hits a lot closer to home than it would if I had just married someone else and had a different life. And that doesn't mean that like, it's like to me know when I say, I mean, it's personal, I actually meet it in the sense that like, this is sort of a joyful undertaking for me.
It's fun. Like for me, like, I, I just love being around it. Like I love being in a diverse environment. And, and so, you know, to me, it's just so easy to, to roll up my sleeves and do the work to require to make this thing happen, you know? Cause like, you know, the, the motivation comes very, very easily.
[00:07:10] **Bertrand Newson:**
And Matt to ask the obvious question, why.
You know, what was it that you feel was, was speaking to you and David to, to like pull the trigger and to put this into action. Now,
[00:07:22] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
a couple of things um, you know, one is, you know, the. you know, the strife that erupted after George Floyd's murder in was in March of 2020. You know, just, you know, a lot of people started talking about, you know, all right, it's time to do something.
It's like, you know, no matter who you are or where you are, if you care, you know, it's time for just everybody to do something. So, you know, I w I was swept up in the. Um, That was a big impetus, but also it helped that my business was far enough along to actually be able to contemplate to actually to have the resources and wherewithal, to contemplate doing something like this.
So, you know, if it had been a year earlier, it just. Yeah, it would've been too much too soon, I guess, to take something like this on. So we, we were very much ready where we were in a good position to, you know, we're starting small, you know, we're, we're, we're, you know, it's just one grant we want to like, you know, measure twice.
Cut once, get it. Hey, I'll have it be a success and then, and then build on that. So, you know, the timing was right. I guess it was a timing thing on both
[00:08:30] **Kevin Chang:**
sides. And what I love about the program is it's not just the grants, right? It's not just the, the stipend and the grants, but it is like all encompassing soup to nuts.
As you, as you described before, So give somebody success in this industry. And we know that as a tough industry, it's not an easy industry to, to move into, you know, coach and I have been starting coaching this coaching program, you know, behind the scenes. And obviously it has taken time. It has taken effort.
It has taken somebody to bounce ideas off of a lot of brainstorming, a lot of things behind the scenes. So I love that you are bringing in mentors, bringing in other advisors, bringing in, you know, a lot of these. Aspects that makes a coach successful. I guess, talk to us about the other advisory members that you have, you know, obviously in addition to the stipend, there's so much else that um, you know, this, this coach is also going to be privy to be part of.
So, I mean, talk to us a little bit. About all the other stuff as well. Yeah.
[00:09:28] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
I mean, you know, it was clear from the get-go, you know, as mentioned, I am white, David
warden is also white. And so we knew that in order to, to pull this off, you know, measure twice, cut once, right. In order to do this right. And not like make a bunch of unforced errors, we needed a diverse team around.
To build it. Um, And so, you know, the first person I thought of to reach out to was my friend Corey. No, not you Bertrand.
I'm just kidding. Um, Well, yeah, my friend, my friend, Corey, who actually is a trusted confidant, but in terms of like finding a co-director for, for the coaches of color initiative, cause I really wanted to be very actively and. But I knew that it wasn't like, it would be bad if I was, you know, trying to run the show.
It really had to be a team thing. So yeah. I reached out to Bertrand and said, you know, would you be willing to help me? Do you know, a lot of the heavy lifting to get this thing rolling and to keep it rolling? He said, yes, thank goodness. And then we built a, an advisory team around us, Kevin, you know, all about our board of advisors because you much to our benefit are, are a member of it as well.
So we've got you on the advisory board and also Angelina Ramos, who is a collegiate track and field and running coach. Um, She's at ball, state university now we had her on our podcast recently and she's just, man, she puts other coaches to shame. It's like, like, seriously, if you want to be a coach, like, listen to her, talk about coaching for awhile.
And you're like, okay. I better, I better raise my game, you know, just like, you know, some people are just born for it now. Yeah. So she's one of those. And then India. Who was actually recommended by a Bertrand. So Bertrand started like earning his stripes right away. When, when I asked him to do this he suggested India.
And you, as a matter of fact India cook who's a runner uh, a coach as well. You know, she's one of these folks like Bertrand who came to running a little bit later and brings that perspective. And also as a community builder uh, she has a podcast of her own. Bertrand and I have been on that.
So yeah, that's, that's, that's the team. And then we have other additional support from, you know, the 80, 20 endurance foundation, which kind of oversees the coaches of color initiative is a technically a separate entity from the company. But of course it's, you know, it's all hands on deck. So yeah.
In addition to David our newly hired director of training, Layla Portus she's going to be instrumental. She she's really going to have a lot of interaction. Um, Our grant recipient um, and also Hannah Hunt staff who just like our marketing and social media Maven. And you, you know, Hannah.
[00:12:13] **Kevin Chang:**
Yeah.
Yeah. Hannah is fantastic. And I mean, we do have to give a shout out to your podcast that you recently launched and, you know, I know that so many moving parts behind the scenes in order to launch a podcast. So congrats. We know you had Coach "B" on recently. So you know, I think a lot of fantastic things behind the scenes at 80 20.
[00:12:33] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Yes. Yep. Yeah. It's funny you guys uh, let us into the podcasting realm. So yeah, you, you were picking my brain, but I was also taking notes.
[00:12:42] **Kevin Chang:**
Well, always happy to share, always happy to share. I mean, I think that's the fun part about this, this family there's always room for more um, especially just, just more fantastic minds and what you bring to the podcasting realm and tell them in terms of. In terms of your background in terms of everything else is just fantastic.
So we really encourage our audience to go check out your podcast and this.
[00:13:02] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Thank you, Kevin,
[00:13:06] **Bertrand Newson:**
how do you feel things are going so far. Since we have announced, since we've shared the launch video and that we're receiving applications for the grant, have there been any surprises? Has it been what you thought?
any like aha moments that you'd like to share with the audience from just being rewarding overall or, you know, it's not what I think.
[00:13:25] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Yeah. You know, for me, I don't know why it wasn't. I was so taken off guard by it. But when we received the first application that was powerful. It really was because like this person likes.
I mean, even if, even if it had been the only application we got, I would have been so happy, you know? Cause like this person, I know, you know, if this person is actually chosen, w will, will benefit from, and, you know, take full advantage of, because this is not a handout type of thing. Like you have to, this is an opportunity that someone has to take advantage of.
I'm a worrier by nature. So the whole time out, you know, we were putting this thing together. I'm like, what could go wrong? What could go wrong? And then, yeah, it just, but it became real when it's like a name and you know, a picture and a story you know, like, wow, I mean, this is like real, this is real.
This is actually happening. And it's actually only gotten better from there, you know? Pretty good. Again, we don't have a ton of resources uh, but we got like pretty good. We've gotten pretty good exposure. Like it's just been very well received. And you know, we're, I think we're around two dozen applications.
Now we had a four week window and these are like serious people. Like people who are not just like, oh, a thousand dollars a month. Like, no, they're, they're like people like, you know, I wish I had two dozen of these opportunities. The handout. So it's just, for me, it's been like very, very gratifying and it's going to be the same thing all over again.
When like we make a decision and this thing rolls out, you know I think that'll be fun in a whole new.
[00:15:04] **Kevin Chang:**
Have you seen a pattern in terms of like types of applicants? Are they mainly people who have running backgrounds have endurance backgrounds, but haven't gotten into, you know, coaching or are they coaches that are looking to kind of expand their career or um, have you seen kind of any, any patterns?
[00:15:20] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
That's the other thing, which is actually like equally gratifying because. You know, from that first application, I couldn't have imagined the diversity of the actual applicant pool that we've seen since then. So, you know, that's a mistake that allowed of, you know, white people make in a white majority country.
It's like, oh, there's us and there's everyone else. Uh, No,
no, it's not like that. You know? Diversity is diverse. Um, And so I'm not just talking about like necessarily you know, ethically or geographically, it's like ages experience, like everything you spoke to, like, you know, you name it, you know, we've had, you know, people from, you know, not just north America, but other countries you know, people in different endurance sports disciplines.
So it's like, it's not all runners. It's also you know, triathletes and people co who coach track. I mean, this is the whole idea. Right. And so it just, w I feel like we, we, we've gotten a few things right. You know, up to this point.
[00:16:26] **Bertrand Newson:**
Yeah. And on my end being on the other side, behind the scenes, watching the applications come through, as you mentioned, the level of diversity from a geographical standpoint, man, you touched on.
So many people from different parts of the world, which is so cool, incredibly high caliber qualified individuals. So I'm glad that this decision does not just rest with Matt and myself, that we have an advisory board that will help us with these tremendously talented individuals. And like Matt said, there's.
So many people that can easily step in and take full advantage of the resources afforded to them. So we have a work cut out for us, but it's, it's a, it's a good problem
[00:17:05] **Kevin Chang:**
to have ULI. And I know that there's been some discussion behind the scenes that even if there is a. That, you know, the, the other applicants, there's still something that we can do to help support these other applicants, because they're so passionate.
They, you know, they can still give so much to the community. So you want to talk a little bit to that? I don't know if we formally.
[00:17:26] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things, you know, we're just to some extent, you know, we're building the ship at sea, you know, and actually, you know, we we've, we've been uh, you know, I at least have tried to be very forthright with people about this.
I think it helps, you know, just say, Hey, I'm a rookie at this, you know, I'm into it. You know, I'm giving my best effort, but it is, you know first time. And so yeah, one of the things that I, you know, I, in retrospect should have thought of earlier, but you know, it came, it came to be lately.
You know, the last thing you want to do when you're trying to, you know, build people up is saying no and the way this whole thing is set up, it's like, yeah, we can always say yes, in, in one sense to one person, it's like, well, what about all these other folks? Because you know, you said earlier, you know, it's a tough business.
It's, it's tough to succeed and endurance coaching, but I tell you what. All of the applicants that we've received. I feel like these people are it's, it's, it's a self selecting group, you know what I mean? Like these people have what it takes to succeed and it's like, you know, I would love to do what I can to help every everyone.
And I can only do so much. So yeah. That's why we're talking about like actually connecting these folks with each other. And then, you know, you know, PR providing support to like, nurture that. So it's not just like checking a box, it's like, oh, here's your constellation prize. But th that this is actually sort of almost like an extension of the program,
so yeah, it's going to happen.
And uh, yeah, it's just a matter of the, the, the specifics are yet to be nailed.
[00:19:01] **Kevin Chang:**
Yeah, and I, and I think, you know, everyone on your advisee advisory board, me included, we're so tied to this mission, you know, of getting more diverse coaches more experience, more supports and helping nurture them and helping them, you know, tackle these hurdles that can bog down, especially early in the career.
If there's anything in terms of time and anything in terms of advice that anybody on the advisory board can help these folks or anybody else who's interested in getting into coaching, you know feel free to reach out to us. I know that I will definitely jump in there and help out as much as I can, because again, we're, we're so bought into this mission and we're so bought into the mission of just helping more coaches succeed because the more coaches we have, then the more athletes we have and the more athletes we have, I mean, the more that this community can build in and of itself.
So I think. For
[00:19:51] **Bertrand Newson:**
some reason, I feel that I have been in the exact shoes of some of the people that are applying for the grants and the support uh, not about the stipend, but about the resources and the learning opportunities. Because I have benefited firsthand from the insight and mentoring from Matt.
I have benefited firsthand from the mentoring and insight from you, Kevin, you both have shared your professional and personal experience with me as I you know, it wasn't too long ago that I became a for. Services rendered running coach I'd been coached before, while had been certified for a couple of years very competitive field, but to take that on full time with the backdrop of a pandemic when people are encouraged not to you know, get together in person and to realize some real success to.
Takes a confidence step away from a rewarding 30 year career as a hotel professional and, and, you know, to hear from you, Matt and from you, Kevin. Coach, you can do this. And here are some useful tips. This will save you some headaches. This is the best way to go about X, Y, and Z. And now here we are. I say we, not me.
I am in this for the long haul. I love what I do, I would say by all measures that there's been a level of proven success in retaining, after. mentoring them through their own level of their fitness journey, then realizing some success. Then referring a mat, you've referred a couple of candidates athletes to me, which is the ultimate common.
In itself. Um, So it is the, the uh, profession that keeps on giving because you can have an impact on someone's life, on someone's wellness and they in turn can pay it forward and consider getting into coaching themselves. So I have to thank you on air, both because I would not really have realized the success ongoing success as a endurance professional without the due direct influence of both of you.
So. Matt. And thank you, Kevin,
[00:21:57] **Kevin Chang:**
look at this, look at this love Fest, continue keeping it
[00:22:01] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
real.
[00:22:02] **Kevin Chang:**
Oh, we have to say that. So many of the training plans, they Coach "B" rights. You know, a lot of 80 20 principles are, are being utilized. And so, you know, we have to first thank you for bringing some of these prints.
To light, I'm having so many people kind of follow these training plans and have them be proven time and time again, you know, the, the success of these programs time and time again. And that again goes to the difficulty of becoming a coach because not only do you have to be an expert in. In the science of endurance sports, right.
Diagnosing and helping people get over the hurdles and the problems and the issues that they may be having in their current training cycles. But then you also have to be a marketer. You have to be a good salesman. You have to know your technology and how to, you know, how to, how to follow up on training.
All the other stuff that makes coaching difficult, but I mean, we have to say that the backbone and what you have built with 80 20 maybe for our audience who hasn't listened to our first podcast, talk to us a little bit about these principles. What can they incorporate in some of their own training?
[00:23:05] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Yeah, it's funny, you know, running is such a simple sport. I mean, it really is one of the simpler sports above. You know, the best way to do things isn't necessarily something that every runner is born knowing. In fact, I know for sure that we're not born knowing this stuff, so yeah, it's simple, but there is a learning curve.
There, there is. Especially if you're even remotely competitive and, and by that, I mean, anyone who wants to PR. Pretty much. So yeah, you know, I was fortunate, you know, I started running when I was young and I had, you know, coaches who just sort of like they were knowledgeable. And, and, you know, the, you know, some of the, the deep core principles of the 80 20 method.
And intensity balance, right? 80% low intensity, 20% high intensity, that stuff goes back to the early sixties. So by the time I was in high school in the late eighties, like, you know, knowledgeable people basically knew the right way to train. And yeah, sure. You know, change, we've learned things since the late eighties, but, but you know, you know, the foundation was there and hasn't changed.
And, but then it, you know, as a coach, you know, it can be challenging. To actually get buy-in, you know, because like, you know, you're actually, for most people you're, you're telling them, you actually train too fast. You need to slow it down. It's like,
[00:24:25] **Bertrand Newson:**
you tell me to run less. Where's the refund, but where's the undo.
Where's it like time pump the brakes here. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:39] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
I swear. I know what I'm doing. Yeah. So that's, you know, that's where it came from. But you know, for a while I gave people that advice, like you need to make your easy runs truly easy. Not like you can't run fast, you know, 20% is not insignificant. But for the most part, people get kind of caught in this moderate intensity.
It was only when scientists came along and, and quantified, you know, they, they were put, they put numbers on top of something that coaches had known for a long time that it, you know, something about that just clicked with people. And so I leaped on it. Hey, I've been giving this advice forever, but we've got a new wrapper for the same old burger and people are buying it.
So let's, let's give them what they need. So there you have it.
[00:25:25] **Kevin Chang:**
Yeah. Which is incredible because time and time again, you know, guests after guests, I think. Point towards, you know, the, the, the long runs, the slower long runs, the Maffetone training to some extent, but Hey, if you want to run faster on race day, you've got to go longer, slower.
And then you got to push the pace during those 20%, you know, which I think a lot of people get into their comfort zone for most of the runs throughout the week. And they don't really push the push the pace when they need to push the pace. I think, you know, having the science behind the principles and, and that helps people actually listen to you when you say, Hey, slow down and actually slow down for this amount of time.
I think it's fantastic. And it's transcending the sport of endurance. I mean, I think we had a strength coach, one of my old CrossFit coaches on the program and he even mentioned, Hey, have you heard this 80 20 book? It's so as the, you know, as, as transcending just the nervous horse world, which is fantastic.
Yes.
[00:26:19] **Matt Fitzgerald:**
Yeah. Not like I came up with it, but I'm happy to, I'm happy to do my part.
[00:26:25] **Kevin Chang:**
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