Kevin Chang: [00:00:00]

And so it wasn't until I ended up at Tiny Prints that we got a dog, we got a puppy and I started to eat healthier because Hey, new life, you new job, new lease on life. Something that I'm looking forward to, I want to feel better. I want to do better for myself. And so I started to eat better and I said, okay, I'm going to walk my dog every day.
And so every day for 10 days, 15 days, 30 days, I was doing this little jog and that 15 minutes, you know, ended up being turning into a mile eventually. And it ended up turning into two miles and then it ended up turning into three miles and I realized, you know, two or three months in that my dog was always, she wouldn't let me take a day off.
Hello and welcome to the RaceMob podcast. This is episode number 13, I'm Kevin entrepreneur technology and fitness nerd, and the founder of RaceMob. I'm joined by master motivator. Founder of two legit fitness co-chair of the Taji 100, RRC a certified coach USA track and field certified official, the incomparable Bertrand Newson.
So some of you may be asking, who is this Kevin character? And what is this RaceMob all about? Well, this is the episode where we flip the camera. Or the microphone in this case on me, we dive into my background and why my parents and sister have provided constant motivation and are the driving force behind me.
We talk about my dog Kiah, which is short for Macchiato and how she helped me discover running and literally changed my life. From being overweight and self-conscious to living a healthier and happier life. And the many, many lessons learned along the way, it was this transformation that helped inspire me to create RaceMob, because to accomplish great things.
It takes a lot of support. Luckily I have the support of my wife. But the support of a community can be so powerful. It also helps to have guidance experience from athletes so that you don't have to make those mistakes. And what good are those amazing accomplishments? Unless you have a platform to share your stories and inspire the next generation.
Because all it takes is one step, one little change, something small. In my case, it was taking the dog on a walk. That's something small can help change somebody's life. So hopefully the story helps you in some little way. This episode is brought to you by RaceMob, and inclusive community for fitness enthusiasts.
Whether you're brand new to fitness or you're veteran athletes, we all need support, motivation and accountability. Our new community site launches on September 14th. Where we'll host online meetups challenges, giveaways, and live sessions with coach B myself and some of your favorite podcast guests.
We'll also be launching online training. Start with a group program like our couch to five K, or create your own custom program that suits your needs. Head over to https://racemob.com/training. Enter your fitness goals and schedule your free one on one coaching assessment with coach B, but you have to hurry.
We've only got a few limited spots available for this kickoff. Without further ado, let's get into our conversation.

Bertrand Newson: [00:03:25]

Hello everybody. You are in for a real treat today. We have the one and only our very own Kevin Chang. Founder team, captain innovator, community inspire, uh, here to share his story on the RaceMob history, the relaunch 2.0 and him as an athlete and his vision of bringing the community closer together without further ado. Kevin, how are you today?

Kevin Chang: [00:03:58]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Be good. I'm doing fantastic. I mean, especially this, this whole week, we've been, um, you know, talking with a lot of podcasts guests, we've been hearing just so many inspirational stories. You know, I was worried if my story will stack up with the rest of the folks that we have I have on the podcast, but at the same time, I'm hopeful that not every story has to be about.
Incredible incredible journey. Some of them can be, you know, everyday folks that have interesting stories to tell that we can relate to. So I'm hopeful that somebody finds my story interesting, and that I can help somebody along their journey.

Bertrand Newson: [00:04:34]

Yes, it will. And you will. Everyone's story is unique.
Everyone's story resonates once you're open to share. And we're so thankful that almond just with your, your passion, your commitment, and you have done a lot and so much more to come. So let's jump in, man. Well, you're here in California, but we know you didn't grow up here. Uh, take us back, you know, parents, home, state, hometown school, and, and the like, I

Kevin Chang: [00:05:00]

definitely want to give a lot of props, a lot of credit to my parents.
They grew up in Taiwan and both grew up from very meager beginnings. I think my mom often tells the story about her growing up with, with 12 relatives in a single room. And my dad, similarly, you know, very, very meager meager beginnings. And, you know, often during those times, When we're talking about the sixties, you know, Taiwan was a very poor country, very poor nation, and a lot of kids didn't get the chance to even go to school, you know, high school or college.
Um, well, middle school as well. My mom was a gifted athlete and that actually allowed her to attend junior high and high school. She was the point guard for her basketball team and ended up setting all sorts of records in her high school in javelin and shot. Put. She was a fairly gifted athlete back in the day in a relatively small village in Hualien.
And so had it not been for athletics, she probably might not have been able to be afforded those opportunities to grow in her education. My dad, on the flip side, not an athlete at all, it's still like, you know, has, has problems like shooting a basketball. We'll hold it like, you know, with a, with your hands and whatnot.
But gifted intellectual math genius, literal math genius would walk into a classroom and would school, his teachers, and even his professors walked into college and would teach them, end up teaching them. And so they both got the opportunity to come to the U S after college. They went to Michigan State University right around the time when magic Johnson was there and that great rivalry with Larry Bird.
And my mom being a basketball fan was, you know, a huge, huge magic Johnson fan. Um, they're still, yeah, huge fans, but, but, you know, really had a really difficult time moving to the States, not knowing the language, not knowing English very well. You know, thankfully they just worked, they just worked at it and worked at it and worked at it.
My dad excelled in the academics and got his PhD. My mom worked and worked and worked at it and got her master's. I think she had ended up getting two masters. And so really my drive and my fortitude really comes from. They're want to live a better life and have a better life for their kids and the amount of work and effort that they put in to it.
And so, um, yeah, I was born in Colorado. I grew up in Colorado. It was interesting growing up in, you know, I think the state of Colorado is probably, at least at that time was about 99% Caucasian. And so we knew very, very few Asians. At all, we knew very, very few minorities at all. The closest grocery store that was Asian was about 40 minutes away.
Um, you know, it was quiet a drive away. And so it's really interesting because I think about growing off in, in that environment, which. You know, you don't think about it at the time, but sure. Or like you always stood out like a sore thumb. And it was interesting because my parents were great cooks, but they didn't have the ingredients on hand that they were used to cooking.
And so we grew up with, you know, the, our afternoon snacks were very processed foods. Uh, we had those. Frozen chimichanga burritos, you know, frozen French fries. You stick in the microwave, all the frozen pizzas, all of that pot pies. That was, I loved that food, that those TV dinners, you know, and like my parents would cook the Chinese food if they could and rice at every meal.
And I'd be like, no, I want to have Mac and cheese. I want to have, you know, this process processes it's food. So I didn't realize it, but I was growing up fairly unhealthy and. I think it was fifth grade or sixth grade. We had this like TV broadcast that we did used to do in the morning at the school. And I was one of the anchors and one of my friends had put on, Oh, Connie Chung is like, you know, a news anchor, a famous Asian news anchor at the time.
Well, he mistyped it and it said Kevin Chunk. And that was my nickname for two years. It stuck like that. Kevin Chunk, you know, and it's funny, these things that like. Stick with you after a while. Like, and so I had this relationship with food, with obesity, with those types of things, even growing up, you know, and my family was so focused on academics from a very, very, very early age.
You know, we did. A little bit of sports. Like I was enrolled in soccer and later in basketball and, but mainly the focus was on academics. You know, we would come home from school and it would be multiplication tables and it would be, you know, math, workbooks, and booklets and those types of things. And I remember, I mean, I guess it's, it's such an Asian stereotype, but.
I remember in fourth grade, very, very vividly. I got a C and it was a C in reading. I still remember this reading comprehension. And it was because I didn't like read an extra book or something. And my mom literally made me cry that she, she was on my case for that C and I didn't understand it as a child, you know, I was like, ah, C's average, C's average.
But she said, do you want to be average? That was what she's asked me. Do you want to be average? And so it's so funny. Cause it's like these moments in your mind, they stick with you for all of time. And so from a very, very young age, I knew, no, I don't want to be average. I always want to work that extra little bit to be beyond average.
So growing up. I ended up going to high school, about 20 miles away from my house, because there was this international baccalaureate program which had just started, they actually chose like a location. The only one in the County, they only allow one in the County. It was 20 miles North of where we were.
And, you know, 20 miles South of like the Northern border of the County. So you can imagine one school, all of the kids that wanted IB or, you know, these higher level classes from a 20 mile radius were all congregating on this one location. And for me was just an incredible experience because, you know, they brought in the best teachers in the County wanted to teach there because the kids wanted to learn.
You know, we've got to make amazing friends in high school, and I'm still extremely grateful for my parents for offering to drive me in the morning. We had a carpool of kids in my location, but that's quite a drive. That's quite a commitment to take your kid all the way to a high school. That's. Fairly far away, you know, taking those extra 30 or 40 minutes out of your morning, extra 30 or 40 minutes out of your afternoon or evening, actually, probably more.
Cause it was 30 minutes one way. So, so we're really talking about, you know, two hours of your mom's time driving you to school, just so that you can get a better education. So I'm always thankful for them for that. And I'm lucky because I ended up excelling really, really well at that school. I ended up being valedictorian.
I ended up earning the scholarship, which was the Boettcher scholarship. And so most people outside of Colorado have never heard of the better foundation and the Boettchers, but. Long time ago when there was a gold rush in Colorado. I just tell this story because I find it fascinating and interesting, but a long time ago, when there was a gold rush in Colorado, one of the patriarchs of the Boettcher foundation now went out for the gold rush, but instead of mining for gold, he started hurting where store he sold the pickaxes.
He sold the buckets. He sold the stuff that enabled. People to go out and pursue their dreams out there. But he was the one that actually made the fortune. So many people went out there and, you know, lost the money, but he, he had the foresight to know that the hardware store was actually where the money was being spent.
And so he took that hardware store. They later. Ended up having a beet farm and manufacturing, most of the sugar for the whole Western United States, a lot of our sugar today could actually comes from beets, not sugar canes, and it's because of the better foundation. So that's your foundation and the bedroom, the scholarship in particular.
Yeah. It's an interesting story. The better foundation. If you look at any of the museums in Denver, you know, natural history, the museum, museums of the arts. Coors field Invesco field, the center for performing arts, all of them will have better foundation plaques because they have just given and given and given to the city of Denver over the years, that has been their creed and what, what the Boettcher foundation is known for.
And one of the things that they're most known for is the better foundation scholarship. Which has given to 40 high school seniors every year. And the only stipulation for the scholarship is that you must stay within the state of Colorado. So even though I had been accepted to some other universities, go ahead and please

Bertrand Newson: [00:13:46]

share Kevin, please do.

Kevin Chang: [00:13:48]

You know, I think, you know, like Case Western and I think we're talking, you know, Berkeley and the other around here. I think I was weightless at MIT. I remember applying to MIT, Caltech, like those types of schools and, and whatnot, but, you know, I think for me, I knew in my heart, my sister was actually a Boettcher scholar as well.
So I have to give her a ton of props for being the one leading the way leading the charge. Um, she's been a huge inspiration in my life. Not only in college, but also entrepreneurially, which we'll probably talk about later. But, you know, I knew in my heart that I wanted to get that Boettcher scholarship because I wanted to pay my parents back for all the sacrifices that they made.
I wanted to make sure that there weren't any student loans or student debt that I was able to go to college. All that debt free. So I was, you know, I got the Boettcher scholarship, a couple of other scholarships as well, national merit president's leadership class, a couple of others. So ended up that I was actually being paid to go to college, which was phenomenal.
Wow. Instead of walking out of school with a student loan, Or a student debt. I was walking out of school with a small checking account that had a little bit of money, you know, and they, they kept the scholarships to, you know, the cost of the school and all of that. But, um, but I was really fortunate in that all of that hard work from elementary school, middle school, high school, it ended up paying off quite quite a bit.
So, yeah, so I went to college in Colorado, ended up transferring enough credit into college that I was able to take one semester and do a semester at sea, which is this awesome study abroad program. And it ignited my passion for traveling semester at sea. For those who don't know is this program that basically it's, you're on a cruise ship and you stop at 10 different locations around the world in a course of three months.
So. Wow. So I've been to, yeah, I've been to, you know, parts of Asia, Thailand, Vietnam. We went to India, we were in Kenya, Africa. We were in South Africa. We went to Brazil. We were supposed to go to Cuba, but there was tension at the time. So we ended up going to Venezuela. And so, yeah, that ignited a lot of passion for me to realize I have a true love for traveling.
I have a true love for, you know, exploring the world. And it also told me that, you know, my major at the time was, well, it is in electrical and computer engineering, but it told me at the time that I couldn't see myself behind a desk for eight hours a day, just programming, just coding, just. You know, circuit drawing and doing that sort of thing.
So I had this passion and I wanted to explore something else. And so that's basically what brought me to San Jose was, you know, I, I found a job that was actually in semiconductors and it was. Marketing semiconductors. It was product marketing for semiconductor. So it was like, Oh, I'm going to be able to do something a little bit different.
I'm going to be able to interact with other people and talk with other people and, and all of that. So, so that's actually what brought me to San Jose, which is incredible. Yeah. Which is a funny story.

Bertrand Newson: [00:16:54]

I've known you for 13 years and we've been chatting for 17 minutes and.

Kevin Chang: [00:17:00]

85%

Bertrand Newson: [00:17:01]

of what you just said. I've heard for the first time.

Kevin Chang: [00:17:05]

Wow. That's the coolest thing about podcast, right? It's like, you get to tell your story. You get to relive some of the past, some of the history, all of that.

Bertrand Newson: [00:17:13]

Yeah. That's good stuff, man.

Kevin Chang: [00:17:15]

So yeah, we moved here in 2006. My now wife, Christina. Took the plunge with me and we both moved out here. And the funny thing is we, I moved out here thinking this was going to be a two year stint and we were just going to head back to Colorado and, you know, the Silicon Valley thing, it might be nice for like young folks, but we'd rather raise kids or do something else or, you know, have that family life back Colorado.
And it turns out, you know, we ended up loving it here, but I'll tell you that first year that we were out here, it was a real struggle for me at work. It's interesting when you do and excel really well in school, school's one thing, you know, they tell you what to do. You show up for tests. They tell you exactly how you're supposed to do everything.
Oftentimes when you go to work, if you don't have the right manager to help you along the way to pull you along the way to coach you and teach you things. You can struggle, even if you are talented and capable and all of those things. So I'll tell you that first year, I didn't really know what I was doing, struggled mightily and heavily, and it wasn't until I got pulled into another team and had a fantastic manager who showed me the ropes and let me really shine and flow that I'd really did well.
And I started excelling. I've got to give a shout out to Kemal who was that first manager who allowed me to see that I was capable of doing more. So I was in semiconductors for two years. I always knew though that I wanted to do something in web and had a passion for startups, even at that time. You know?
And I didn't know the first thing about startups at the time. I didn't know the first thing about programming or developing or designing or any of those things. And so I was lucky enough. I had just applied for this Tiny Prints company online and got an email back from the CEO, like 15 minutes later, like, Oh, do you want to come interview?
Of course, yeah. I want to come interview. And I interviewed for a business development role because I was like, Oh, I've been doing contracts. And that sort of thing. And luckily for me, you know, the business development, that didn't make sense for what I was doing at the time, but that CEO saw enough potential in me that he got me a job as a product manager there at the time, I didn't even know what a product manager did.
And I was like, what, what is this role? What do you do? So for me, that was a godsend, really putting me in that role, in that position. And so a product manager for those that don't know, they're the ones. Deciding and prioritizing what engineers will develop for a business or a company. And for me, you know, being somebody who's an infinite learner wants to be quick on their feet, wants to figure out solutions when they can being at a startup environment where you get to talk to different stakeholders, get to understand their problems, get to come up with creative solutions.
Gets developed tools that you think will solve their problems. And then seeing a lot of those come to fruition and help company. To me, that was a godsend. So at Tiny Prints, I was there for four years and we were acquired by Shutterfly at that time. So. I think three years in, I was applying Pfor an MBA. I thought it's, you know, the next logical path for somebody like me, um, go back into academics and ended up we were acquired and financially, it just didn't make sense to go pay, you know, a hundred thousand a year or what I, $120,000 over two years.
For an MBA versus, you know, make a good amount of money through the acquisition and those types of things. And so for me, I decided, okay, I'm going to stick it out. Stay another year, ended up leading one of their larger divisions and product launches. They're in the greeting card space. And that's actually about the time where I got into running.
So I know I'm talking to all of this like career stuff, all this other stuff. And I do want to talk about running and fitness because. It's impacted my life in so many ways. When I think back to when I moved here to San Jose, yay. And the shape that I was in, I was a much, much larger person then than I am now.
I was probably around 200 pounds. And I think that that first year and me struggling, I'm the type of person that when I'm struggling and I'm not doing well, I bury it in food and I eat my way out of it, you know? And at the time, especially I was not into nutrition, health, any of that stuff. And so, you know, anytime I would find myself in a new environment, you know, going to college, I probably gained 20 pounds coming to San Jose.
I gained quite a bit of weight as well. And so for me, a lot of times the success in the career world is actually tied to how I'm feeling. And you know, if I'm feeling poorly, I tend to eat. And so it wasn't until I ended up at Tiny Prints that we got a dog, we got a puppy and I started to eat healthier because Hey, new life, new job, new lease on life.
Something that I'm looking for, or two, I want to feel better. I want to do better for myself. And so I started to eat better when I started to go to Tiny Prints. And that winter, I think is when, or maybe a year later, but it's actually, when I started to find running, you know, I tried maybe running like 30 minutes and just hating, we've all been there and just like, okay, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to just do this for a week. I'm just going to, you know, uh, you know, it's not great, right? It wasn't until I started walking my dog and I said, okay, I'm going to walk my dog every day and I can walk her for 10 or 15 minutes. It's it's around the block. She's a little bit hyperactive and doing the walk, you know, dog whisperer, Cesar Milan was like, you got to give them work.
You got to walk them, you got to lead. Show them who's the alpha dog. So I said, okay, I can walk her for 15 minutes every day. That's fine. And you know, that 15 minute walk turned into, okay, I can do it a 15 minute jog. And so every day for 10 days, 15 days, 30 days, I was doing this little jog and that 15 minutes, you know, ended up being turning into a mile eventually.
And it ended up turning into two miles and then it ended up turning into three miles and I realized, you know, two or three months in that my dog was always, she wouldn't let me take a day off. Right. So sometimes you have, sometimes you have training partners. And they're like, okay, he can take a day off.
My dog would not let me take a day off. And I remember reading something in a men's health magazine, and it really clicked with me at the time. And it's funny cause we had Joyce Lee on earlier this morning, but the article said, if you miss a workout, you are 70% more likely to miss the next workout. And it's always stuck with me even after all of these years.
It's like, okay, if you want to be consistent, you've got to plan it out. Be consistent, make sure that you are living to your plan and working towards your plan. So that is when I got started into running was my dog, you know, barking out the door every morning, making sure that I was getting my miles in and then starting to see progress.
And I think there's something magical about starting to see that initial progress. About starting to, you know, we all go from like this, ah, I hate running. It's the worst to like, okay, I'm going from a mile to two miles. I'm now going from two miles to three miles. And now I think there's something magical about being able to go three miles, being able to go 30, 40, 45 minutes that you now can go into the zone and start to enjoy yourself.
And I think. You know, before that period of time, I was always going out too fast. You know, if you slow down and enjoy it, it's actually fun, which is crazy. It's crazy to explain that as somebody who doesn't run, but when you actually slow down and you can actually have, you know, your own thoughts, you can have yourself to your own thoughts.
And it's actually fun. And I remember even like three months in, I rolled my ankle pretty bad and had running, taken away from me for that month, before my wife tried to run my dog, that didn't work, but, you know, And I just, I came back with such an invigorated love for running for activity, because it was taken away from me, something which we've talked about recently, even, you know, like having these pandemics take away these races.
And I hope that we come back with even more invigorated love for races for, you know, that, that human contact. So, yeah, so that's how I kinda got into running. I think we have some similar stories about our first races. My first race was also warrior dash was also going down to San Diego. I slept on my buddy Jason's couch.
We had some great nights out situations and, uh, you know, plenty of, plenty of beer at the finish line and all

Bertrand Newson: [00:25:52]

great photos, by the way. I've seen

Kevin Chang: [00:25:53]

pictures and it's, um, You know, I think you go from not realizing what a live event is going to be like to just falling in love with that live event.

Bertrand Newson: [00:26:05]

And especially that type of live event.
I mean, no pressure. They festive vibe to it. Everyone, all shapes and sizes, some in costume, some not, and it's fun. It's fun. The distance is good for all fitness levels and it just sticks with you, especially if you're out there doing it with friends, it just makes that experience even better. So, yeah, totally get it.
Nice little springboard into how your running career continued to evolve.

Kevin Chang: [00:26:31]

Absolutely. And it's so funny cause you look back and like I was training so hard. I was like, yeah, I'm going to crush it. I'm going to kill it out there. And now you look back and you're like, everybody's in costume. What are you doing, Kevin?
What, you know, I guess it's just my nature to be like Uber competitive, uh, everything that I possibly can be. So. So actually the idea and the thought for RaceMob came out of that event. And I wrote about this a little bit on the blog about RaceMob 1.0. But you know, my friends, Robert and I, we went down there for warrior dash and he was into running.
He's actually one of the people that got me into running and we came back and we were so excited about the event and what we had done. And we just wanted those pictures. We just wanted those photos of us jumping over fire and crawling under barbed wire and all of that. And the photos came out and it took forever to find your photo because, you know, they didn't really use optical character recognition and a lot of the things that we have take for granted today, and then they wanted to charge like $25 for a digital copy of it.
And like $30 for like a four by six prints. You have. Got to be kidding. You've got to be kidding me. But you know, at that time, nobody knows when he brought phones with them, nobody brought like anything or GoPros. We didn't have any GoPros. We didn't have any cameras. So these were like the only pictures that we had of the event was like these $30 pictures.
And so my buddy, Robert and I, um, we were, we were saying like, there's gotta be a better way. What if we could either pay the photographers? Like jointly, like pull together some photographers, make this an easier process, you know, make it easier for users to get their photos. And, you know, I'm sure they pay like five or $10 instead of like 20 or $30.
But, you know, we wouldn't need all of that overhead expense. If you can get hundreds of people to buy their photos. It's better than getting a smaller portion, paying a lot of money. That was at least our thoughts at the time. So we had developed a couple of things in that vein, and we actually trying to think of the timelines, but we had actually reached out to a couple of race directors at that point in time talking to them about photos.
And we realized that race directors were actually more interested. In the front side, other events, how can I get more runners to my event? I don't, I don't really care about that backend stuff. Like who's taking photos and yeah, that's good additional margin on the back end, but I really care about finding more people, finding more people for my event.
And so it's funny because I parallel that with like my running career, because. That same year I ran in Dean Karnazes, Silicon Valley, half marathon, and I was so excited. You know, I think I got a one hour 39 minutes. I was like, starting to look at that point in time. Yeah. Getting faster and getting faster.
And we actually talked to. The race director from Silicon Valley half marathon, which was Keir Beadle, who was actually, and Scott's boss at the time. And this was before I had met JT and, you know, got to know about him. It was actually Scott, his business partner, who I first met all those years ago. And so, yeah, so it was interesting.
We were having all these conversations back then. We had conversations with all star dog run at the time as well. And we were just trying to figure out this. Area this niche where we could help them get more runners to their events, get more racers to come through. And we're all trying to figure out this whole social media stuff at the side, our angle at the time was that Facebook and the Facebook graph was wide open at that time.
And so. If you signed up for an event and you clicked connect with Facebook, which was very easy to do, we could get all of your information and make it super simple for you to check out and complete your order. But we could also figure out which of your friends I might be interested for this race. And we thought there was this interesting angle because we had been to a couple of races at this point, not too many, but we've been to a couple of races where we were at the race and we knew somebody was at the race, but we didn't realize it until weeks afterwards.
Like, Oh, you were at the, you were at the warrior dash, you were at the, you know, such and such Silicon Valley, half marathon. Yeah. And so we just thought that there was this interesting area there where we could help people locate friends that they might have missed contact with and to be able to help them set meeting points.
And, or we thought, you know, the number one reason you go to a race is to go with your friends. That's like the number one reason why you would go. So that's kind of the impetus to RaceMob at the time, but the whole idea fast forward from Silicon Valley, I was really serious at the time. And now it's like, well, I think that the window has passed now, but maybe in a couple of years, I won't think that the window's past, but I was serious at the time to try to qualify for Boston.
And I was trying my hardest. I think it's a goal. Anybody who gets into running is like, can I do it? Am I capable of doing it? Is there a window? Is there an opportunity? And so I was training my first for my first marathon and I mean, I was still like way, way, way far from, I think Boston qualifying for late 20 year olds is like three hours and five minutes or something like that, probably under three hours now.
And I was training for my first marathon trying to go as gung ho as I could. And I was shooting for a three 30 marathon for my first marathon. Um, This was in Las Vegas for the Las Vegas rock and roll. They shut down the strip at that point in time, but they didn't do it at night to this was the morning run.
And something for runners to realize is, you know, a mistake that people that I made was. You never want to put, you know, things in your body that you're not used to putting in your body. For me, it was Mucinex, I had a cold that week and, um, you know, a little bit stuffed up a little cough, nothing too bad, you know, nothing, nothing too bad.
By took a Mucinex to the morning of the race thinking, okay, well this will help me get over it. Well, little did I know music is just dries your system out. It just pulls all of the moisture out of your body. And so for the first 13 miles, I felt great. I felt fantastic right after we hit the half marathon, Mark, I just fell apart.
My legs cramped, solidly just seized up. And I spent the entire second half of that race between a walk, a painful, painful walk in a, in a mild jog. It's so interesting because you look back and before I entered the race. And even when I went to the starting line, I always thought of a marathoner as like fit as a fiddle perfect body type.
And when I got to, I got to do this to fit in and, and be competitive. And I realized like, We come in all shapes, we come in all sizes, you know, you don't have to be the fittest of the fit to be able to make it across the finish line. And it was a really, both humbling experience for me, but actually afterwards, it was a fairly uplifting experience for me because I realized that even after all those struggles and trials and tribulations and you know, it being my first marathon and whatever, I still was able to finish it, I was still was able to accomplish it.
I was still in a good enough shape. That even walking half of the marathon, you know, still able to get over the finish line. And so, yeah, that was my first marathon experience.

Bertrand Newson: [00:33:45]

Congratulations. Yeah. I mean a similar experience. We were talking to a Joyce Lee previously and she was sharing her first marathon experience in San Francisco where the last 10 K plus was a bit of a grind, but regardless she got it done.
And then the lessons you take from that, it gives you some confidence when you tackle the next challenge as well. Back to the first half of that Las Vegas rock and roll the first 13. Plus, were you on pace? Do you feel you were either put in the work or you in shape?

Kevin Chang: [00:34:11]

Yeah, I was absolutely in shape. I was absolutely in shape.
Well, I thought. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I would have made the time because I was, I think under eight minutes mile was kind of where my pace was. So I felt great those first 13 miles I felt, um, I think I was even at like seven 45, seven 50, and I felt fantastic that entire time looking back at my training runs.
And the other runs that I had been on mile 19, a mile 20 for me, I always cramped in my training runs. Um, I always had those cramps and I just thought marathon day is not going to be an issue. I'm just going to push through it. I won't cramp looking back on it. I probably didn't have the right nutrition strategy, sodium intake strategy.
That would have allowed me to cross the finish line and a running pace. And so it's so interesting because at the time you just think, Oh, I'm just going to muscle through it. Had I had a coach or somebody to chat with or talk to who had actually done a marathon. They probably would have advised me to, if nothing else have, you know, they have like salt capsules, salt pills that you can bring with you.
There's all sorts of things that you can do for electrolytes. And we're not just talking about the electrolytes on the course, which are, you know, oftentimes really, really sugary and not fantastic for you. But we are talking about, you know, having, having that extra salt, that extra sodium, especially if you like me, tend to sweat and tend to, you know, your body just tends to dehydrate.
So it's so interesting. You know, you look back and I guess I'm the type of person to just analyze every little detail. That's probably what makes me me is like, you know, we've got the Las Vegas marathon, I'm going to look at every little corner, see what were the insight edges? I'm going to map out everything, do the three D mapping and the I'm a planner through and through a planner to the core.
And, uh, you know, I, I read everything and plan everything. So. I thought I was there, but I think looking back at it, I might not have been there.
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Bertrand Newson: [00:36:29]

It's nice. Like you said, the ability because of what, you know, now through the other running experiences, you've had being able to look backwards with an objective eye and say, Oh, you know, I thought I was, but the nutrition strategy and what that plays a role.
And also sometimes it's this mindset, you know, good points.

Kevin Chang: [00:36:46]

And it's funny. Cause we talked to like Ray the other day and I'm always like curious, like, okay, you were cramping. What happened to, you know, like sometimes your mind is more powerful than your body, which is extremely interesting. And there's, there's some, some science to it.
I think there are some like energy shots that are like pure cinnamon or pure, like, you know, kept say us in or something. And it just shocks your mind out of thinking that you're going to cramp. And I'm always fascinating about like, you know, the science. That's behind, like, you know, or can get us through with like some of these things, like hot shot or something like that, or, yeah.

Bertrand Newson: [00:37:21]

Yeah. Oh, have you tried that before?

Kevin Chang: [00:37:23]

I have not. No, I haven't tried it yet.

Bertrand Newson: [00:37:25]

You don't not,

Kevin Chang: [00:37:25]

as

Bertrand Newson: [00:37:28]

you mentioned. What's something you do in training that works for you mimic on race day. I had read all the buzz about hot shots. I was a part of another fitness group on social media and the, in the truck fleets were bragging about the hot shots, hot shots.
I did an iron man, hot shots outside. So I'm like, well, heck if it works for them and I, I sweat, but I don't only cramp a lot and was thinking San Francisco marathon where it felt that may have a chance to PR it's Hills out there. And if I want to stay ahead of the cramps, I'm going to go ahead and take it at a halfway point and be proactive.
Oh.
Man. Oh man, my entire system was inflamed
nasal hairs.
You didn't think that nasal heres had sensitivity, man. They never, again I'm like, and I didn't need it necessarily. And I've learned was the lesson learned? I never had tried it during a workout and it had the reverse effect it through my system off for the balance of the race and all the training that had led up to it.
Was just, you know, it was a byproduct of it. So again, live and learn
hot shots.
I kid you not indoors out indoors, probably not the best thing to do on a podcast, but, uh, uh, you know, other, other forms of electrolytes. So. But yeah. Back to the, how did your running journey continue from that very first marathon

Kevin Chang: [00:38:54]

at that point in time?
And I'm not sure. I thought, well, marathoning probably just isn't really, for me, you know, the long hours that you put in the amount of training, the amount of time that you put in. And I think I got as much enjoyment from half marathons and the lower distance without putting my body through it. So for me, I thought.
You know, half marathon and below is probably distance that I wanted to be at. I did, however, within those first six months I had signed up for the big Sur marathon. And because, you know, I knew, you know, they have their system opens and you gotta be within the first 15 minutes and I have an email, so I signed up and so I went to the big Sur marathon.
And this is may of 2011 or April, 2011. I think it was right on my birthday, right around my birthday. April 27th, April 27th. My birthday. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it was right around

Bertrand Newson: [00:39:44]

same day as my brothers.

Kevin Chang: [00:39:46]

That's right. That's right. And yeah, and I didn't do as much training and that's when I learned, you've got to train the Hills.
If you're gonna run a hilly course, you have got to train the Hills. And so mile 19, for me, cramps, cramps up the entire, you know, legs locked up and just hobbling to the finish line. So I think at that point I was like marathons for me. I'm just not sure. I'm not sure if I'm ever going to do a marathon ever again.
Um, and that that's, you know, that's kind of how I felt about it at the time.

Bertrand Newson: [00:40:19]

What year was that again? Kevin?

Kevin Chang: [00:40:21]

That was 2011. Yeah.

Bertrand Newson: [00:40:23]

1. A change with the big Sur course that year. ###### Kevin Chang: [00:40:26] Yeah. So that year was one of the Outback years, because basically there was a mudslide out. I think it was just a little bit past Bixby Bridge. And so I was thankful for the sleep because we didn't have to bus out at three 30 in the morning. It was fairly cold that morning. I remember, but you know, it's just such an. Beautiful gorgeous course. And, okay, so this is another like, Hey, dummy, bring your camera, bring your camera. ###### Bertrand Newson: [00:40:55] It's a beautiful course, man. ###### Kevin Chang: [00:40:57] It's like back. And I was like, Oh, we have the big stir guys on. And like, Oh, I've got to have some pictures and I don't have any pictures. I don't have any selfies. I don't have any pictures. I was so focused on trying to get a time and trying to, you know, blah, blah, blah, that, and I look back on it now. It's like, Savor the journey who would have cared about the time. Like, I don't even know what my time was here. Right. It's like four 18, four 30. I don't know. I can't remember. Right. ###### Bertrand Newson: [00:41:22] That's a great time on that course, man. I've run that course. I came in at four 40. So even with the cramping, that's a great time. ###### Kevin Chang: [00:41:28] All I know now is like, I wish I had some photos. I wish I had some photos because I, and I still remember quite vividly. I had a friend who was running the relay. Robert was running the relay at the time. And I remember seeing him on the course all the way down. We were like running these Hills and we gave each other a high five that stung for like two, but we were so we we're so happy you saw each other on the cores. And that was like the boost of energy that anybody needs when they're going along and just incredible memories. Incredible time. ###### Bertrand Newson: [00:41:58] When you have friends out there on the course with you ran up there running shoulder to shoulder with you, or you saw your buddy doing the relay and the high five, but I was fortunate to run in 2015 with Becky Hernandez. One of our, our very first RaceMob podcast guests. Yeah. Good stuff, man. ###### Kevin Chang: [00:42:12] Absolutely. And I think it was really during those first couple of races. I started noticing team and training asserted, Noni seeing Team Challenge. And it was really then that I started thinking about, okay, I really wish that I had a community that I could belong to. That would help me along the way, because. Every race up to that point, my wife doesn't run Robert. I tried to get him to go a couple of races and he didn't really want to. And so I was always showing up by myself and alone and, you know, seeing everybody else being like, Oh yeah, they're part of that running group, but not being a part of any of those. As of yet. And so that, that was the other, like side of RaceMob was, you know, obviously coming from a technology background, we were thinking, Oh yeah, you can go to the races. Your friends are going to, but it started then creeping into my mind, like, yes, we can actually build a community so that anybody. Can show up at a race and have friends cheering them on. And, you know, we might not be that big yet, but that has always been that long vision of, you know, no matter where you're from, no matter where, how you're training, no matter if you already belong to a running group, or if you don't, I love to travel. I love and, you know, willing someday I will be at one of these, these major events, major races, and I'll just. Be able to say, Hey, here's the meeting points. Let me, let me meet all of you. Let me hear your story. Let's discuss, ###### Bertrand Newson: [00:43:37] going to happen. Yep, absolutely. ###### Kevin Chang: [00:43:39] So I ran big Sur you know, back in 2011, started to RaceMob in 2012 where I quit my job. I just decided like I'm going to do something I'm going to. Double down. I'm going to get my entrepreneurial MBA. I'm not going to, you know, pay money to the MITs and the Harvards and the Stanfords. But I am going to just double down on myself. And, you know, at that point I had won this business competition, um, up at Stanford and I was like, yeah, I'm just going to do it. ###### Bertrand Newson: [00:44:09] Wait, say that again. I don't want to go to get my MBA at MIT or Stanford or Berkeley. And I won this entrepreneurial competition at Stanford universe. Okay. Kevin? Yes. ###### Kevin Chang: [00:44:23] It was, it was like this, um, after work entrepreneurship class led by Brent. Walter is a great entrepreneur in the area that we got to teach. He, he has a lot of connections throughout Silicon Valley. And at the end of the year, you pitch your startup and. I think I won $10,000 in favor, so not, not too much. Right. Um, I think we were supposed to do like a meeting with the VC at that point in time, but I think schedules conflict did, or, you know, things happened and never ended up happening. But, but yeah, so I decided to double down on RaceMob. I think I detail a lot of this in the blog, but. For me, the beginning of that journey was talking to race directors, going to conferences, talking with timing companies with, you know, the photography companies, just trying to get a good understanding of the industry who were the major players in the industry, what were their needs, what was missing, I guess, overall. And so I think a lot of learnings at that point in time, I had built, like, this was the day that like text messaging was like, Oh, could we get text messaging? So I had built this like really quick text messaging system for a timer that was, was doing some cool stuff I had, you know, and, and it was at these conferences. I think these conferences were when like color me rad was blowing up and the color run was blowing up and. You know, they were just starting to use Facebook advertising for getting people to races. And these really large race companies were starting to get set up. And it's kind of the precursor to all of these runs that you see the glow run, the bubble run. They basically all came from this little location in Utah. I don't know what's happening, but they all like, just communicate with each other in Utah. They've all come from. They're like, wow. Warrior dash came from there. Color me rad came from their color run, came from their hot chocolate run. I'm think comes from there. Like they all came from this like, well location and the business model was okay. We're going to build a theme. We're going to build a theme for a race, and then we're going to go and just kill it on Facebook advertising and go from race to race, to race or location, application, location, location. Super interesting. And they all have deep connections with each other. So, you know, oftentimes when you would run hot chocolate run, while you're email address would get passed to, you know, some of these other races. And so it was a really, really interesting time to be involved. You would see this growth hockey stick, you know, these people that would come to conference and like, Oh, I've got an idea for run the next conference. Yeah. I'm running. 50 races across the United States and we're ranking in five to $10 million in revenue. And it was like incredible. And, and they were just like, yeah, I just like put a couple ads online and it's some of it's my secret sauce, but it wasn't like an incredible, incredible time to be in the industry. And to learn from others. And I wasn't sure if, you know, race directing was for me, that didn't make a lot of sense for me, but I still thought that there was a need for community and community involvement at races and being able to find other people. So, yeah, I think it was 2013 where I got the headbands. And we launched RaceMob, trying to develop this community of people who want it to be social on race day and who wanted to chat with each other and talk with each other. And I think I get into this a little bit in that blog, but there were a lot of problems with that initial RaceMob launch. You know, I think I sank. Probably $30,000 into website development and other things. And I think the biggest, biggest couple of problems, you know, reflecting back and looking back on, it was one, I didn't have a partner that was able to hold me accountable and make sure that I was constantly working, constantly grinding, constantly doing things. And to, I think that we kind of went a mile wide and that we were attracting a lot of people. A lot of people believed in the vision. Believed in the idea, believe fundamentally that this was a great thing, but we only went an inch deep in that, Hey, you got the headbands. But for reasons that I didn't realize like my emails, weren't getting to people, they were getting stuck in spam and you know, a number of other things, but basically you got introduced to the brand and if we were at a race. Then we started building really, really strong, deep connections with people that were at races that were at events that we were at, but we weren't helping people along their fitness journey. As much as I think now we have the capability of, of doing, we were only building those. Community connections, but we weren't really helping people see results and helping people. And so, so, yeah, so that was RaceMob, one dot, Oh, you know, there was some travel that I was doing during that time. There was an injury that I sustained and, and I just, ###### Bertrand Newson: [00:49:08] you're lucky to be with us, man. ###### Kevin Chang: [00:49:10] Yeah. Yeah, a ladder accident. And it was, you know, for me, I was setting up the tent at five in the morning and I was out there for a couple of hours and getting emails and not seeing any money or anything on the backend. And just after a while, for me, it was, I was starting to see it as work and not the fun that I had seen it early on. And I wasn't able to actually go out and actually run the courses and do the races and those types of things. And. It made sense for me at the time. Um, I think we're talking 2015 to say yes, I've learned, I've learned a lot at the beginning of it. I didn't know how to program or code. I taught myself how to develop and code and do all that. Tell myself how to hire contractors. I taught myself marketing and. I was leading, listening to a lot of entrepreneurs at the time. A lot of people I still follow today in their journeys. And I learned, I learned a ton. And so when I went back to corporate life at QE co I brought with me all of that experience. And I was a product manager that was 10 times more capable than I was when I left Tiny Prints. And so for me, you know, I was able to walk into that situation and relatively quickly turn them from a company that was looking for funding and looking for another round to profitability within a couple of months. And able to turn conversion funnels that were not performing very well into conversion funnels that were performing at three X, what they originally were, and that allowed us to then start advertising in Facebook because now we were margin positive and that allowed us. A huge, huge growth trajectory. So it was incredible journey. I ended up at KiwiCo. I was there for five years. I ended up growing a team of 10 people. I led the entire technology division. So I was in charge, not just the product manager, but also in charge of managing the developers, um, managing QA. And I learned so so much because up until KiwiCo, I had never managed anyone. And so I learned a lot from that experience. I had some great managers myself at QB coach that taught me the ins and outs. And I think key to managing people is, is the same as in life. Right? You want to, you want to have empathy. You want to understand where people are coming from. You want to help coach them. And understand what their goals are and help coach them to, to be able to reach and attain those goals. And do you want to be direct and honest as well and not add fluff to anything and it's in those ways that people will start trusting you. And so for me, I had built a team that, you know, our retention rate was. Basically a hundred percent for the four you're right. In a technology industry, in an industry where any of my developers could have easily gone to a Facebook, a Google and been paid. Sorry, guys been paid like twice as much, if not more than what they were being paid at KiwiCo, but. But they stayed and they stuck around because they saw the mission and they saw the vision. They liked working with me. We liked working together. We were all learning and it was just an incredible, incredible experience for me, the whole KiwiCo experience. And so that was also the time that I started moving away from just purely running into. Different aspects of fitness. And I have to credit a lot of that to ClassPass. And I don't know if our audience knows too much about class pass, but at the time, um, it had this, uh, monthly unlimited business model where you paid, I think it was originally $99, then it was like, $200, but you could go to any of these boutique classes around the Bay area. You were limited to three classes a month. And so it was at that time where I started testing out, Pilates started testing out yoga, started testing out spin classes, started testing boxing and. These bootcamps. And then I started, I started going to CrossFit and to me, CrossFit had always been this thing that was like, unattainable was like, Oh, that's only for the people you see on TV or that to 100 pull-ups and X, Y, and Z. And somebody at one of the gyms was just like, no. Oh, you should just come test it out is a very scalable it's for any fitness level. You can just try it, see if you like it, see if it's something that you will enjoy. And I really, really enjoy that entire year on ClassPass when it was unlimited, because there's something about being able to be dropped into any group of people and being able to form pretty like instant connections with those folks. It's something I wasn't like super comfortable with. When I first started going to class, I like, ah, I'm shy. I don't know if I'm going to. And over time, it's been like, yeah, you can draw me into anywhere. And I will feel comfortable. I will probably, you know, after, after years of training and focusing on fitness and thinking about every aspect of fitness and body and nutrition and supplements and everything, if you draw me anywhere these days, I probably will end up. You know, in the top one to 2% of any class. And I think that for me, has been this journey of yeah. Getting from like fat kid, Kevin, uh, chunky Kevin to having that confidence, having that belief in myself, having. That ability to go in anywhere and have that confidence to succeed. And it doesn't come overnight. You know, my first CrossFit class, I didn't know what a barbell is. Didn't know how to pick it up. Like barely lift, lift that barbell. It felt so good. Heavy to me. I didn't know what a clean was. I didn't know what a jerk was. A snatch was, you know, probably some of, most of our audience probably doesn't know what these things are. And the thing I love about CrossFit is, you know, halfway at the fitness level or athlete that you are is probably 30% technique and understanding and working and working on technique is probably 10% strategy and thinking and knowing your body so well to know. Okay. I can go all out for two minutes. I have to be at this pace. If it's a four minute workout, I have to be at this exertion level. If it's going to be a 12 minutes, a 15 minute workout and knowing your body so well that you can dial that in. And then it's 10% just want to, you know, you're dying and it's the every day, there's a workout that is going to challenge you in every day that you go to a CrossFit class, it's going to be like just what your body can do is some of it's just strategy and learning. And. I love that strategy component. I can, you know, geek out for days on what that strategy is going to be. And then it's just like, can you suffer enough? Can you get through this enough? Can you, can you put your body through, you know, what your mind wants to do well, but your body's saying no. And, and that's what I started loving about CrossFit. And I loved ClassPass because for me, it was like, I was part of 10 different communities. I was chatting with them, everybody from everywhere. I was doing the Pilates. I was doing the yoga. I was doing the. Spins classes. And I was just, I was learning and I was growing and I was loving so much of it. And so, so, yeah, so that's why I continued to do CrossFit today. Um, you know, ClassPass has changed their business model a little bit. I've joined a couple of different CrossFit gyms and you know, it's been, it's been a real struggle for them during the pandemic for me during that time too, I ran the San Francisco marathon and, uh, I think it was 2017. I'm wearing the shirt right now. Oh yeah. And. For me, that was a real, a real joy, because I didn't realize that I had I'd forgot that I had signed up for the San Francisco marathon until, until maybe like eight weeks before the marathon. And at that point I hadn't and Ron nearly at all, and it was a real joy to see that the strength training actually helps incredibly with running. And there's a really great podcast called strength running. And the way that your muscles, your tendons, your bones, all of those parts of your body, improve with strength training and with putting your body under more strenuous exercises than just your body impact. And, and so actually I felt really, really strong throughout that San Francisco marathon. It's the. Only marathon that I've run completely from beginning to end, without cramping in the middle. And I was able to get up to that fitness level relatively quickly, um, which was incredible for me. The one bad part about that marathon is. I think I did break a bone in my foot. I think it was the some Moyal bone, um, had a slight stress fracture. I think it was the same one that Greg had talked about in his race. And it's just something to be aware of that even though your body feels good, even though, you know, you think you can do all that training, if you don't build it gradually enough and put the time, the energy, the effort into it. Um, you can still have some of these overuse injuries. And that's also the time I realized if you're going to see a doctor sometimes for these things, you've got to see the right doctor. Who's familiar with running because I saw a podiatrist and he's like, no, it's gotta be gout. It's definitely gout to swollen it's gout. And I was like, I don't, you. You don't you think it's related to this marathon that I ran. And I think what had happened was I had had a stress fracture and this is very common for that interest in injury. You have a stress fracture and it can actually also lead to a blood clot. And, um, and so it was, um, not a good situation there for a bit. And I think if I had gone to the right doctor, we had. Could have cleared it up much better, but one night I was just, my foot was throbbing in pain, all of that. And then, and then for some reason I woke up and it was okay. And it's actually a fairly scary situation because if it was a blood clot, those clots can, you know, obviously travel. ###### Bertrand Newson: [00:58:54] Yep. Heart and brain. ###### Kevin Chang: [00:58:56] Exactly. And so. Fairly scary, scary situation is it's kind of crazy, but, ###### Bertrand Newson: [00:59:01] but I'm glad sharing that story for our listeners, much like Joyce shared medical related story as well in our earlier podcast. It's important to share those situations like that. ###### Kevin Chang: [00:59:11] And so, yeah, so that was 2017 fast forward here to 2020. And I know we've taken a lot of time. I can talk for forever. I'm that kind of person that can talk for forever. ###### Bertrand Newson: [00:59:21] Your show, who could keep, ###### Kevin Chang: [00:59:22] keep it, ###### Bertrand Newson: [00:59:23] keep it moving, man. Loving it. ###### Kevin Chang: [00:59:26] RaceMob, even though it's not something that I've actively been working on for awhile, it's always been the deepest passion of mine because running is how I got my start into, um, you know, moving from that. ###### Kevin chunky, Kevin. Um, these negative body images of myself to, to feeling healthy, feeling better about myself. And of course, there's times where I like to say, yeah, I'm probably consistently inconsistent a lot of times. Um, there are definitely times where my swing. You know, my body weight swings, or I'm a little bit less healthy, but it's because of running that I always have that confidence that I can come back, that I can always find something that I love, that I can, um, have the aerobic capacity to be able to go the distance that will allow my body to melt the fat off that I have that discipline to follow nutrition plans and all of that to, to get myself. And if I really, really need to get to, you know, a really low body fat percentage, I know I have that ability to do that. Because I've experimented, I'm a constant self experimenter. I'm always trying to test the fitness waters. And so it's because of running and really only because of running that, I started that journey altogether and started learning more about my health. My fitness started being able to feel like I could attend classes and do the other things. And so for me, this, this RaceMob 2.0 Oh. And. Being able to talk to you and being able to talk to the audience this time around it's really about helping people realize their full potential, you know, no matter where they are on their fitness journey, no matter where they are on that spectrum. I think between the two of us and between our guests. We can absolutely help everyone. So, you know, those that are really, really early and haven't yet started and want to be able to set a goal, set a plan, build that training plan, um, have people share them on, give them advice for that first five K for those that are like me consistently inconsistent. What's your PR you ###### Bertrand Newson: [01:01:29] did. Was it a dead lift? 500 pounds or something like that? ###### Kevin Chang: [01:01:32] Five Oh seven five seven, seven pounds. Yeah. But, you know, those, those PR has only came after being consistent. And you know, quite frankly, the CrossFit fees are fairly expensive. It's not accessible to everyone. Right. And so, you know, I think our gym membership is $200 a month, if not more. And so it's only after paying them and being like, Oh crap, I'm paying a lot of money. I've got to go show up. I've got to do this. That makes you consistent. It makes you make sure that you're there and showing up every single day. But, you know, I think I tend to be on that consistently consistent side, unless I'm paying a little bit of money or, you know, making sure that I'm going to, um, have a plan in place that I'm going to stick to the plan. I'm going to have accountability. And so again, I think this RaceMob 2.0 And people are listening to this podcast and hearing the podcast. What I'm most excited about is the behind the scenes, what you and I are building here behind the scenes, which is we're building an entire framework and membership. That's going to help people in their journey, in their path, and it's going to be affordable. It's not going to be $200 a month. You're going to have to pay a little bit. Um, I think we're thinking like a dollar a day, right? A little bit more than a dollar a day, a little bit less than a dollar a day if you commit longterm, but it's a program that is built around helping everyone, every individual, no matter if you're a beginner, no matter if you're consistently inconsistent, no matter if you're consistent and you've got plans and you've got training, if you need accountability, if you need. People there to cheer you on or want people there to cheer you on or have something to share to others. And if you're, even if you're inspiring others, even if you're, you know, Joyce and, and other people, I think we have something here that will allow you to. Build your community even more help you get to the next level in earning money for the time and effort that you put into your running for inspiring other people and helping other people along their journey and helping motivate and, and bring people along. And I think that we're building something incredibly, incredibly special here. And so. So RaceMob 2.0. Oh, you know, I think it starts with the stories it started with this podcast. It started with really listening to people, helping people, understanding how running has influenced so many of us in our fitness journeys, and then realizing that we can now pay it forward, help others in their fitness journey. And so that's what I'm most excited about right now and working towards right now. ###### Bertrand Newson: [01:04:03] So profound that mission, that vision, especially as it centers around community, and we all need that right now, Kevin, we do because with so much uncertainty increased stress levels, as we both know, working in corporate America. So that pressure, that stress, sometimes it causes it, it triggers bad eating habits. In many cases, uh, during our lifetime, we haven't seen this amount of stress. So people having a fitness outlet, a community that is welcoming to all fitness levels that gets it, that is able to provide an openness, a level of comfort. And it's just good for everybody. And we don't want price to be a barrier that we feel that there's going to be tremendous value out there. Based on just saying yes, and people can get a lot from joining the community without having to, to, to pay. And if they feel that the, the, the, the, the membership opportunity is there for them and they want to contribute then by all means. But our mission is for a healthier, happier, more fulfilled individuals realizing their inner athlete, allowing them to flourish, and just having some fun in the process with the all that is going on in our world. Still the opportunity to be happy. And healthy and support each other along the way. So I'm enjoying the journey and looking forward to the chapters that are yet to be written. ###### Kevin Chang: [01:05:23] Absolutely well said. So that's me and not so much of a nutshell. ###### Bertrand Newson: [01:05:27] Well, like I said, man, I've known you for seven years and I had to pick my job off the ground on several parts of that. And again, I know we're just scratching the surface. We'll have this we'll we'll continue the conversation. That's what I love about this format, just us and other members of the, of the community heavily focus on fitness, but also just talking about life in general and our shared experiences opening up about some of the. The personal struggles and pivots, where we had those life lessons that we learned along the way, and being able to share that with other individuals understand that we're not in this journey of life journey of fitness alone, and that there are better days ahead and on that. And we should open up a cold. ###### Kevin Chang: [01:06:07] Yeah. Yeah. We are cheers to that. ###### Bertrand Newson: [01:06:11] It's a RaceMob. 2.0, ###### Kevin Chang: [01:06:13] here you go. ###### Bertrand Newson: [01:06:14] We appreciate you, Kevin, your vision. And again, the best is yet to come. Cheers. ###### Kevin Chang: [01:06:19] Cheers. Thank you be well, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the RaceMob podcast. Check out all of the show notes or find a running buddy online at dot com. Please subscribe to us on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcasts and leave us a review until next time. Keep on moving.