August 19, 2021
### Guest Quote
[00:00:00] **John Burton:**
And that's when I realized this is a stout time. I finished second, the only guy who beat me with John Paul and some of the guys I finished ahead of are guys that I've respected as much stronger, much faster runners.
And I wrote a blog. A race report in my blog, which essentially said, you know, I actually feel like a real runner. Now I'm not an imposter. I'm not this, you know, kid who would run with his dad and be struggling in a 5k and pretend to that and hurt himself just so he could stop running and have an excuse to quit.
### Episode Intro
[00:00:34] **Kevin Chang:**
Hello and welcome to the RaceMob podcast. This is episode number 62.
I'm Kevin entrepreneur technology and fitness nerd. And I'm joined by the head coach of RaceMob and master motivator, the incomparable Bertrand Newson.
### Guest Introduction
[00:00:52] **Kevin Chang:**
John Burton is an ultra marathoning. Not only is this ultra fit speed demon from Michigan known to rock the Speedo from time to time. But what really struck me is how humble and warm John really is. Sure he has so many race wins, podium finishes and has absolutely crushed a number of different events.
But John also highlights the numerous times where the races didn't go his way. We often talk about how grit is needed to achieve your best to dust yourself off when you fall down and become a better version of yourself. Well, John has this in spades and it's so evident throughout the conversation. Maybe it was highlighted the most.
When we talk in detail about his participation at the Barkley marathon, a race known for being the most grueling on the planet. We're only the most elite are invited and after hearing his story, you'll understand why shortly after recording this episode, we found out that John suffered a fairly significant injury, so we really want to wish him a speedy recovery.
We're also happy to announce that John will be a weekly RaceMob contributor. John's going to be answering your running questions in a weekly column on our site. So subscribe to our newsletter, to be able to ask questions and see John's answers.
All the show notes that are going to be found online at RaceMob dot com slash podcast and without further ado here's our conversation.
### Start of the Interview
[00:02:16] **Bertrand Newson:**
Hello, RaceMob family. We are in for fantastic. A treat. John Burton, the John burden renowned trail, ultra marathon blogger, renowned trail runner. Yes. Western states, participant finisher, two time Boston marathoner and has participated in the acclaimed a Barkley marathon. Welcome John.
[00:02:39] **John Burton:**
Okay. Hey coach and Casey. Thanks for having me.
### John's Origin Story
[00:02:42] **Kevin Chang:**
Awesome. Yeah. I mean, we're, we're thrilled to have you on, the podcast, obviously, historic career, done a lot of things that runners can only dream about doing, I guess, talk to us about early life. Where did you grow up?
[00:02:54] **John Burton:**
Yeah. Yeah, sure. Casey, but first, you know, I just wanted to say the intro there, you guys kind of cherry pick some of the highlights for the Western states finisher they're in Boston and the Barkley marathons, but yeah, I find it odd.
No one ever introduces me as, you know, John Burton who DNF his first 200 or attempts or the Barkley marathons loser or John Burton who dropped out of the Oakland marathon and walk back to his car and a Speedo and a Cape, you know, in shame through the bad part of town or people had no idea that there was a race going on. It's like, what is this guy doing?
Or, you know, John Burton who dropped out of the Mount Charleston rebel marathon, Called an Uber at mile. It's funny and sat down on the side of the road. Cause he couldn't even walk. The last six miles had an, an Uber with escorted by two police. Come pick him up from the side of the road.
So yeah, but thanks for the introduction. No, but I, I guess I, I was going to say here is, you know, one of the thing I often mentioned the people who said, yeah, I have some successes, but I also have a lot of failures and you know, people don't always notice those. And you know, if you look through my ultra signup results, I actually have more DNS than race wins.
And I'm sure you guys probably are familiar this, but you know, I love that Michael Jordan quote, where, you know, the guy has what six NBA championship brings and he's been MVP. And, you know, he just says I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. Right? Last 300 games, 26 times, I've been called on to make the game winning shot and missed it.
And I think that's important that, you know, it's good to talk about the accolades and the successes, but it's also, I think, good to mention and full transparency, there's setbacks and there's injuries, and there's races that didn't go according to plan. And you know, just because you fail at something, doesn't make you a failure.
And yeah. So, but again, thanks. Thanks for the good introduction.
[00:04:54] **Kevin Chang:**
Yeah. I mean, you know, you miss a hundred percent of the shots that you don't take and it takes so much guts just to show up at the starting line. That's what we always tell our athletes. Right. I mean, just show up there at the starting line.
And just the fact that you're showing up the starting line for these hundred milers, I mean, that's head and shoulders above what most of us will ever, ever, ever think about being able to do. And and so yeah, kudos to you for, for doing all that.
[00:05:20] **John Burton:**
Well, I think most of us can do it, but yeah, you're right there. Kevin, most of us think we can't, or don't even bother to try, but yeah, you can do a lot more than , you think you can. Okay.
So you'd asked about you know, kind of background and growing up. I was born in a small native American Indian reservation in the upper peninsula of Michigan. And Coach "B" knows this, but, how do I preface this I'm pro and a little bit to exaggeration or stretching the truth.
I was an English literature major in college and, you know, writer, I've written some books and magazine articles and things, and there's an expression, never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story.
So, so, so if you, my family listens to this podcast, they might be doing a little fact checking and saying, wait a minute, you, you didn't technically grow up in a goat shed or a chicken coop. But but yeah, so.
My father when, when I was born he built this kind of 12 by 12 shed out of a lumber that he did. Found a repurposed on a neighbor's neighbor's yard. And yeah, it was just a simple 12 by 12 shed, no running water. I think we, we did have electricity and he built me a career out of wood and stuff.
And so that that's was my introduction. And later after we moved out, then my grandmother turned it into a coat shed and a chicken coop. So it wasn't like we, we kicked the goats and the chickens out. But, but when I tell the story, yeah, I was, I was born in a goat shed and...
Yeah, we had set some rough times the first couple of years and we were homeless for a bit. So my father, I was working at a gas station and Ypsilanti, Michigan, back then when it was a full service, you know, you had someone pump your gas and clean your windshield, check the oil, all of that.
And we had, we slept in a, I think it was a rambler station wagon we had there in the parking lot and took showers with a hose on the side of the building. And during the day is, this is kind of how I got my introduction to a endurance sports or athletic training. You know, sometimes it was pretty busy when, when cars are coming in to get serviced.
And so my father bought me a tricycle. And in the storeroom of a gas station, he'd moved all the boxes and things into the middle of the room. So there's kind of this nice little track around the outside perimeter of this little storeroom. And I would ride my tries to call, just ride laps around there.
And there was, you know, four corners obviously. And in the third turn, the third corner, there was this big, giant deadly spiders, probably, you know, a daddy who, the long leg, but in my mind as a child, this was some deadly poisonous spider that was trying to kill me.
And so essentially I was doing hours of interval training, before I even knew what intervals were. Right. I ride slow until I got to that corner. And then sprint as hard as I could get to safety and then catch my breath for the next three turns and then sprinting out of that corner again, so.
I mean, I'm sure it was a little bit traumatic and I probably explains why I'm still scared to death of spiders to this day, but it was, it was pretty good training and I, you know, it was a three-year-old, I'm pretty sure I would've beaten anyone else in the trycicle, tricycle racing, but yeah.
Then we kind of, my father got his feet under him and got a job at General Motors, got a house, did not have to live in the back of the station wagon, and shower, and bathtub and all that great stuff, you know people have.
And my father, you know, he struggled with substance abuse and a lot of things like that, but he is a really good guy and always there for me. And he was a marathoner. I mean, he was a three-hour marathoner and yo he, every day he'd have a cigarette, his cup of coffee then you go first run after us riding down another cigarette. And, you know, I guess that was the seventies, things like that. Or the eighties.
But, yeah, that's where I got my, my love of running. He used to take me running in the evenings. It was probably just a 5k, but we we'd run every night. And he also got me into cycling. I'm a big cyclist and we rode, well, I remember a couple of hundred miles.
We'd go on these back packing trips together, just riding in the rain. I think
one point we were riding on the highway and people pulled over and told him I was child abuse to have as, you know, young kid riding on the highway in the rain. But, but I loved it.
So yeah, those are good times, but I think that's where. A lot of my athletic came from, I have to thank my father for keeping me active and getting me out there.
But yeah, I ran cross country in high school. I was not particularly fast or anything, but I enjoyed it. And I was on a cycling club with some buddies.
And even in high school, we'd go ride a hundred miles a day. And I'm like four days riding across the whole state of Michigan. And this was before gels or at least, I didn't know anything about nutrition and sports strengths. And it was all fueled on McDonald's French fries, I guess that's where my son gets it from.
And I'm sorry, you guys, we had a story before we went on air of my, my son in McDonald's French fries, but yeah, we Mike and Ike's mountain Dew. I mean, those were, those are the fuel back then.
So I'd always been pretty active running, cycling. And when I moved out here to California, that's when I was first introduced to the trail running scene and really found my stride there or something that I enjoy, which is, Hey, I still will go out and run on the road.
So the bike paths and do an occasional marathon. I think trail running is really where my heart is at.
### Moving to the Bay Area
[00:10:37] **Kevin Chang:**
Incredible. Yeah. So what brought you out to the bay area?
[00:10:40] **John Burton:**
Money show, show me the money here. So I got my central Michigan university. And can you see your parents went to Michigan state,
[00:10:50] **Kevin Chang:**
Yeah. Yeah. that's right. They went to Michigan state.
[00:10:52] **John Burton:**
Yeah. So I'm from, from Lansing, Michigan. That's where I went to high school and my mother lived in Spartan village over there at Michigan state. So I spent a lot of time over there, but I went to the university of Michigan. So it was kind of a yeah,
[00:11:04] **Kevin Chang:**
I see. Yeah.
[00:11:05] **John Burton:**
Tough times. So Thanksgiving and Christmas, a lot of family drama over football games, but, but then I was doing my graduate work at central Michigan university where they had an SAP software installation and I was teaching business, computer classes there, and a recruiter came out to recruit some of my students and you know, was telling me the starting salary and all the benefits.
I'm like, man, that's like twice what I'm making here. And so I said, I have one resume for you. Gave him my resume and got the job at SAP. And I spent 21 years there until last November when I was traded or sold off to a Swedish company called Sinch. They do a telecommunications, SMS messaging stuff.
But but yeah, that's what brought me out here was job opportunities back in the 1999, late nineties.
[00:11:54] **Kevin Chang:**
Wow. Incredible. You're a software product manager, right?
[00:11:58] **John Burton:**
That's right. Yeah.
[00:11:59] **Kevin Chang:**
That's fantastic. Just like me. So...
[00:12:00] **John Burton:**
Right, right.
### Getting into Running
[00:12:02] **Kevin Chang:** Same field, same field. So, I mean, I guess, talk to us a little bit about your start into running. So you said trail running was kind of one of the major things that you got into when you got out here in the bay area.
[00:12:13] **John Burton:**
Yeah. Like I said, I ran a lot in cycle blot when I was young and was always active. I was out doing something, camping, running, cycling, and but then college it's a stressful time and I was a 4.0 student in high school and I got an academic scholarship to the university of Michigan. I took academics pretty seriously.
People who know me are like John, you took party and seriously. Okay, so I took academics and partying very seriously, and that did not leave a lot of time for training. So during college, you know, I'd probably put on 15, 20 pounds and I would still go out in the evenings.
### Running too Fast
[00:12:45] **John Burton:**
I had a couple of buddies Doug Williams, who's a sheriff down in Southern California. If Doug's listening. He will want me to tell the story about the time we were out running one evening and got pulled over by the police for running too fast.
And
[00:12:58] **Kevin Chang:**
Running too fast.
[00:13:00] **John Burton:**
Yeah, well, that's how we tell the story, but in fairness it was 10, 11 o'clock at night, and we wanted to go out and for a little, you know, five mile run or whatever.
And my father had instilled in me that you always sprint at the end of your run, no matter how long it is. And we get to it's the smell of the barn, you know, turn the corner and see the house. We'd always have that final sprint to work on our finishing kick. And so I kept that even, you know, in college.
And so my buddy, Doug, and I would have these sprints at the end of our runs, but we'd progressively start launching them further and further out because it was like a whole kilometer, you could see our dorms from the street.
And so we got to the point where as soon as we turned that corner, there was one kid to go. We started sprinting. So yeah, we're just running as hard as we can down this road, 11 o'clock at night and a local police officer sees us. I don't know, things are up to no good.
So he turns on his lights. We don't stop or pull over cause we want to get to the finish line. So he's chasing us for a good minute or two, and then luckily it turned out all right. We did not get shot or tased or teargassed or anything. Yeah, but wait, there's the story going? Oh yeah.
So, I was a sporadic athlete in college, you know, it was, it wasn't really training that much. And as I said, academics and probably partying getting in the way.
### Running After College
[00:14:16] **John Burton:**
But when I got the job at SAP and moved out to California, there were a couple of guys who do running my buddies petite. We do running at lunch and I'm like, well, yeah, I'm a runner. I'll go out and run with you guys. I couldn't make it around the block without walking.
Right. Like I'd been a decent cross country runner. I was fourth or fifth on my team, you know, lifetime athlete. Consistency consistency, consistency. And that's why I never take a day off anymore.
I try not to have breaks because I remember how terrible that felt like what's going on, am I at altitude? I mean, I can't even run around the block, but having to stop to walk. And it was probably several weeks that were just run a block, walk a block, and just, I was so embarrassed, what's happened to me.
And that was, that was definitely a wake up call. And so that got me back into both cycling and running. And then I think I joined Silicon valley triathlon.
[00:15:09] **Kevin Chang:**
Hm. Yeah,
[00:15:10] **John Burton:**
Cause I'd been a triathlete in high school. And so I did some triathlons out here and he had a group of, you know, as Kevin Casey, as you always preach community, right. Just having people keep you accountable and show up to do the ride or the run together, you know, Tuesday night track or whatever, Sunday morning, early bike rides.
And that really helped me just having a group of people kind of similar speed that we trained together. And I thought I got in fairly decent shape, like, oh yeah, I'm in great shape now.
And so I signed up for this half marathon at hunter park. I don't know if you guys know Woodside hunter park Hills.
[00:15:47] **Bertrand Newson:**
Yep.
[00:15:48] **John Burton:**
I was not training on the Hills. So the race starts my first mile, I think is flat or down hill. I'm in the lead. Right, I already plotting my victory speech, my celebration. And this was before Facebook. So I wasn't planning what I was going to put on Facebook.
But man, after a mile or so we hit the first switch back and it kicked up hill and a few people pass me and I thought, yeah, all right, it's cool. No worries. And a few more people pass me and I start walking and then it's, you know, the first people were passing me were wearing singlets and 135 pounds, looked like serious runners.
And then people started passing me who, you know, were in high top shoes and, you know, carrying a few extra pounds and pushing baby strollers. I just, oh man, I was demoralized. And that's, that's when I realized California kills is a whole another thing. And I was not in the shape that I thought I was, but yeah, I kept at it. Kept plugging away at it.
Years later, I went back and did that same race. And I think I finished maybe third. And that's where I met my wife. She'd won the women's race. And we were both just standing around the food table at the end stuff in our face with whatever, you know, unhealthy food they have at the end of those races, m&ms or I don't know what it was.
But but yeah, it was a, it was a long road. You have many, many years of thinking I was where I wanted to be. And then realizing no, still, still a long way to go, but yeah, eventually kind of found my groove there in, in trail running.
My wife had mentioned that she had one of her friends Christina Ervin, who she was a 10 times Western states finisher. And I think she's done the hard rock Hardrock, which is my favorite ultra marathon. I've done that one twice. She'd done it. I think 10 times finished eight times.
And so having someone like that, just old school ultra run her back before social media. And before you could find, you know, podcasts and blogs, you just had to talk to people who've done it before.
And so I learned a lot from that and that that's how I got introduced to trail running and ultra running. And yeah, I mean, never really looked back. It's it's still kind of where my heart is up in the mountains.
[00:17:57] **Kevin Chang:**
That's incredible. Yeah.
### Meeting Someone Special
[00:17:58] **Bertrand Newson:** And how was that? I mean, let's take us back to that, that that was a the, the run, when you came back in conquered hundred park, second time, a third place finish, but you also won the big prize and you met your wife.
[00:18:11] **John Burton:**
Yeah.
[00:18:12] **Bertrand Newson:**
How, how was that? I mean, you know, couldn't, you know, do you want some of these m&ms how was that conversation?
[00:18:19] **John Burton:**
Well...
[00:18:20] **Bertrand Newson:**
I won third place. You look at my, look at my metal, huh?
[00:18:23] **John Burton:**
yeah, I mean, I say third, it might've been Seth. I don't, it might've been forest. Sorry. I'd have to go back and check. I don't even know if those results were online, but yeah, no, she confessed later. She thought I was like some young Stanford collegiate college kid. And cause we both kind of look a little young for our age, I guess.
And I'm pretty sure, you know, I don't have a lot of, a lot of game. I'm pretty sure she's the one that came and talk to me and then I was like, oh yeah, nice meeting you I'll see you later. And she's like, well, do you want me to give my phone number or something?
So yeah. You know, like I said, you think you're at one level and then you realize, no, I got a lot to learn.
[00:19:00] **Bertrand Newson:**
And how cool that you, from the point of first meeting each other, that she knew you had something in common, right there it's one thing to be involved or meet somebody who you just like in general, but for them to share the same passion just takes it to a different level, man, so...
And very accomplished. She won the race. First of all, we have a little girl.
[00:19:18] **John Burton:**
Yes. I mean, I'm a little faster than her, but you know, she's a, a better runner or she wins more races than, than I do. And I think one time she even At the Tahoe rim trail, a hundred mile race. She was the first runner from our Quicksilver writing clubs. So she beat all of us men as well.
She was right up there, just, I think, a little over 24 hours for that, for that race. Yeah. But now we've got a, well, he's going to say 13 year old son, we got our son's about to turn 14 and he used to be a runner, but now he's, he's really into mountain biking these days, but you know how kids are one day they're playing roadblocks one day it's Fortnite, one day it's Minecraft.
So I expect he'll, he'll find his way back to running at some point, but I'm not one of those fathers who tries to workout today. You're going to do five by 800 ads, you know, just I'm happy that he enjoys being outside hiking and definitely running and mountain biking.
So yeah. Being active, being outdoors for me. That's, that's what, it's all about being healthy. We won't tell them the McDonald's story. Or should we?
[00:20:24] **Bertrand Newson:**
I think we should. We've referenced it.
[00:20:26] **Kevin Chang:**
Okay.
### The McDonald's Story - A Hussling Tale?
[00:20:26] **John Burton:**
The other day my son asked me to take him out mountain biking. Cause we sent him to a mountain biking camp for a week, were hit a lot of fun and he's never really been that good of a climber on Hills. You know, just even a mild hill. He'll have to walk his bike and push it.
So, you know, I'm always reluctant to take a mountain biking with me. I'll go do my workout. And then, you know, I'll, I'll take him somewhere.
But you know, he said, Hey, I want to go to this park. And I thought, yeah, all right, let's go give it a shot. And we're riding in the first hill. It's a pretty steep hill. And I'm like, well dude, come on, don't go that way. Let's go around and take the other hill and sure enough, he rides up it, it makes it up this reasonably steep hill. I'm like, oh man, that camp 707, 5 days of training suddenly he's riding Hills.
But then he points to the steep of silver in the park. It was just this ridiculously steep hill. And it's like 40% grade it for people who are from the bay area, you're familiar with Montgomery Hill Park. Then you'll know the steep hill that I'm talking about over there by evergreen college.
And so I'm like, yeah. Okay. Well, let's, let's ride out that I'm going to give you some space that when you roll backwards, you don't crash into me. And, but he's, you know, he's confident talking smack about how he's going to make it up to the, the garbage can, you know, it's a three quarters of the way up the hill where it kind of flattens out.
And I feel like he was hustling me a little bit now in retrospect, cause he's like, if I make it up, there will be buy me McDonald's for lunch. Cause we don't need a lot of fast food. I'm like, dude, if you make it up there, I'll buy you everything on the McDonald's menu.
So he takes off sprinting and I'm just laughing to myself he's way ahead. And you're like, ah, too young and naive. I got him, I admire his heart.
And so it gets, it starts getting steeper and steeper and it hits the really steep part. And I see him slowing down. I just start chuckling like, ah, here, here we go. And then but I'm cheering them on like yeah, I do it for the burger or you got this.
And then I hear him talking to me and there's no strain in his voice. He's like, oh, I'm getting that bird. And then I look at he's riding pretty strong. I'm like, oh, no, no way. Sure enough. He's just grinded makes it all the way up to the top.
And you know, I'm cheering for him to crash, cheering for a squirrel to run through his folks, take them out, anything to save me from having to buy him several thousand calories worth of junk food.
He made it up there. Yeah. And we ended up negotiating a little bit and he settled for some taco bell for, for three tacos, not every figure on the menu, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. It's
[00:22:49] **Kevin Chang:**
Oh, he was definitely hustling you. He was definitely hustling. Yeah.
[00:22:52] **John Burton:**
All right. I got hustled for sure.
### Tales of Failures
[00:22:55] **Kevin Chang:**
Well, I want to get back to a couple of stories and some that you mentioned kind of in the intro. So, I mean, talk to us about that. The, the golden Speedo you know, Oakland marathon you know, talk to us about a couple of these failures as well. I mean, I'd love to just get into, you know, some of the stories and, and when you started hitting some of your successes, because we know you that you're accomplished runner as well, so
[00:23:17] **John Burton:**
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks Casey. So, when people ask me about some of the successes and, you know, I've run Western states, I think I did 20 hours, 37 minutes, one time, and then 21 hours. Yeah. You know,I this race in Canada, a fat dog, 122 miler, which is a hardest ultra marathon in Canada.
I've had some successes and people, I think sometimes, well, you know, you got good genetics or it's this amazing runner crushes, everything in there. There's probably some truth to the genetics part. And everything probably do have some genetic gifts, but a lot of it is just trial and error. And, you know, like I said, I've lost more race or DNS, more races than I've I've won races.
### Pacing Strategy
[00:24:01] **John Burton:**
And I think one of the, one of the things is, you know, some people kind of go out and run the same pace and all their training runs. And then, you know, if you're training at nine minute mile, for example, and then you think I'm going to go do this marathon and I'm going to run seven minute miles cause I'm just going to dig in on race day it's all going to be there.
And at least from my experience that that's not how it works, right. You need to have racist, call them trial racist, you know, maybe a race you don't care about as much a half marathon. And you go out at that seven minute pace and see if you can do the half marathon at seven minute pace and then sign up for another marathon.
Maybe not the Boston marathon, you know, local one by you, something here, maybe CIM and go out and try your, you know, your goal based on that one and see if you can make 1820 miles before you blow up. And at least for me, that's been a strategy that's been successful is to try to start with smaller, smaller races, smaller distances, and see if I can hit them, the pace that I'm going for.
But you know, like you were saying, sometimes you shoot for the stars and you don't make it. And I think that's okay. Not every race has to be. I crushed it. I hit my goal. So it's okay to take a risk, sometimes set some big audacious goal that you think you probably can't hit. Maybe there's a 5% chance that you can and go for it.
And if it doesn't work out, there's no shame in that. At least not for me. Right. I was just, I was trying something I knew I probably wouldn't be able to do. I thought maybe I could. And if it happens amazing.
If it doesn't, you don't hit that goal. You can probably still sell it, which something from it. Right. You go back and you look at that race and you say, okay, what were the positives?
Well, I was able to hold that pace for 18 miles or, you know, what went wrong, but I, I learned from it. Maybe you can correct next time. Well, maybe seven minute pace. Wasn't I'm not quite in that shape. Maybe seven 15 pace I can hold.
Yeah. So that's, that's been, my approach is, you know, go hard, take risks. They're not always gonna work out, but the consistency and the constantly, well, not constantly, but the occasionally pushing yourself because what you need to do to have those really big breakthrough races where you crush a PR or you finish your racing, you never thought you could finished.
### The Golden Speedo
[00:26:05] **John Burton:**
But yeah, let's look at some of the examples where maybe things didn't go great. And you brought up Oakland and just
for the record, it was not a golden Speedo. I do have a golden Speedo, but it was an Oakland Raiders Speedo.
[00:26:18] **Bertrand Newson:**
Oh!
[00:26:20] **John Burton:**
And technically, technically I think it was boy shorts, not even the Speedo. So, you know, like I said but never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story.
So there I am in my golden Speedo in my, my Oakland Raiders Cape, and I'm at the starting line feeling a little self-conscious, but, you know, I was in pretty good shape that year and the abs were, were out and ripped. And like, you know, what, if you got it far on it.
So I'm just standing there, hands on hips and the front of the starting line for the race, the Oakland Raider cheerleaders are there and pointing and whispering. And they're probably saying, look at this store, but in my mind, they're like, Hey, check that guy out. He's gonna, he's gonna win this thing. So the gun goes off and I go off man in the lead.
First couple miles. As you probably expect things are feeling great, but around mile six mile eight, that old Oakland, the marathon course had this big hill, about 800 foot hill. I think it starts kicking up into Piedmont Hills. People who know the area and I'm a good heel runner.
Now I am now back in the days when I was walking up on her park, but I've since become a decent hill runner charging up that hill feeling great and things are still going well.
I don't know where it was somewhere, let's say mile 20. That sounds about right 18 mile 20. It just hits me like the wheels come off. The bus energy system gone and everyone starts passing me. I'm walking. And you know, obviously I could, I could probably walk another six miles or eight miles. So Harvard was the finish. But, yeah, I just, I didn't feel like it.
This is what's the, it's not training that point, right? It's like, okay. I finished marathons before I finished. I think I was a, I won a trophy first masters that Oakland marathon and had one of those giant checks with $150 you know, check that the mayor Libby presented.
So, you know, it had this kind of positive experience there and I thought, well, do I really want to walk it in? And I just take a shortcut through town and drive home and, you know, try again at the next race. Yeah, just start cutting through the shortcut.
And then I'm tired. Just even walking. I sit down on the curb, I'm like, I got to catch my breath and I look around at the other runners sitting on the curb and then I realized, no, these are not runners. It's, you know, homeless people, maybe some early morning meth. users, I'm not sure.
Some sex workers possibly, and the police are rolling by. And then I looked down and I'm in my speed on cave. I'm like, oh no, they're going to think that I'm fired as you know, this sex
[00:28:54] **Bertrand Newson:**
What is going on over here?
[00:28:55] **John Burton:**
Yeah. Let's, let's see.
How
[00:28:56] **Bertrand Newson:**
Go Raiders.
[00:28:58] **John Burton:**
I quickly, you know, get my race bib out of my pocket. Yeah. Go Raiders to show the race BIM to the place. And I'm in the race. And I had to start walking back to my car and I eventually made it back to the car.
But you know, when some lose some, I guess.
### Calling a Cab
[00:29:13] **John Burton:**
I think at the beginning I also mentioned this Mount Charleston, rebel marathon out Las Vegas, some of our listeners are probably familiar with that or hasn't even run that one.
So it's rather famous than that. It's a downhill marathon with several thousand feet of downhill. And the idea is that it will help you qualify for Boston. If you're one of those runners who are kind of, you know, just on the cusp there, you may be, you just need to take a minute off your time, or a couple of minutes off your time.
The attraction is sign up for this downhill marathon. You'll you'll crush it, which is true. If you've got, you know, quads like Dean Karnazes' or, or somebody, but if you're a regular person and you have. 20 miles down a mountain on pavement. What's probably going to happen is what's happened to me, is your legs are mushed when you get to the bottom.
And then suddenly, you know, I was doing 6:20 6:30 miles down this hill feeling great. Like I've never run so fast. I'm going to crush my I'd run, you know, 2 59, 52 at Boston. So just under three hours. And I thought I'm going to destroy my Boston time and run a 2:55 here, hit those flats. And I think the road kicked out maybe 1%, right?
Like, it's tough to say if it was flat or if it was a slight uphill and I'm like, oh, this is uphill. Well, forget this I'm done.
I just sat down on the road and caught my breath and tried to start running again. And I was just, my legs were completely trashed. And this time I honestly thought, I don't think I can walk eight miles, like without doing serious damage to my kid, my muscles and my legs.
And I had my phone on me. I wonder if I could call an Uber, is there service here? And I check and sure enough, cell service. So I'm like, oh yes, thank you. I call the Uber and I'm talking and then, oh, you mess up, you text Uber or whatever. But then I actually call the driver and explain where I'm at.
I'm like, now there might be a roadblock there. I don't think they're letting traffic through. So you might have to like drive up on the side of the road or something to get here. And then a minute later I see these two police cars with their lights flashing and there's this black Uber behind the police. And he's getting a police escort down the road and rolls up.
And then I feel like such a jerk, right? Cause I'm like, oh no, this is making a huge scene. The other runners like, oh, is this what's going on here? And Uber. And then we're driving on the side of the road to get out of there. And I just. Trying to tuck my head down so nobody sees me through the windows, Uber it off the course.
### A Mimosa
[00:31:48] **John Burton:**
But yeah, you know, it was actually a friend of mine. Bill Pritchett from Michigan just reminded me of a time. We did this marathon in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and I got an ambulance ride off the course and this one was not my fault. Well, okay. I say it's not my fault, this my responsibility, sure.
So I went out hard thinking I was going to win this race and humidity. Michigan has heat and humidity, California. We don't have humidity here in the bay area. And man, that humidity just destroyed me.
And again, somewhere around mile 22, I just, I had nothing left. I was puking stumbling, and I, there were some fans in the side of the road and they were drinking mimosas, you know, Saturday morning or whatever, Sunday morning.
I don't remember. Yeah, because I had a mimosa and were like, yeah, you want one? And I just reached out, grabbed it, crushed it. And then I, I felt reinvigorated. I started running again, passing people. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm back. This lasted maybe what, two, three minutes. And then I was back in the shade, like under another tree this time, worse than before.
And I don't know that somebody saw me and called an ambulance, but, or if there's an ambulance just happened to be randomly driving by, but stop dude get the air conditioned ambulance. I'm like, no, no. That's for people with serious injuries or health conditions. I don't want to take away from someone who might need it. I mean, I'm fine over here. I think I maybe just have a little heat stroke or something.
The EOD is like, oh my God. Get in the ambulance. Let's rock. And I didn't want to explain that. I just know the mimosa because that's a lot, a lot more to it, so, yeah, it's good. Again, I refuse to get in the back, the ambulance stuff. I sat in the front seat and he drove me back to the start and then they, they checked me out.
But yeah, you know what I mean? These things happen to all of us, right? Like raise your hand, who hasn't called Uber in the middle of a marathon or, or been carted off the course in an ambulance. Just part of normal, normal running I would say.
[00:33:50] **Kevin Chang:**
Yeah, I guess when you, when you run enough races, when you, when you do enough of these things, then eventually some of these things catch up to you or you have some of these amazing stories, which some of us don't have. So that's fantastic. I mean, that's awesome.
### How Many Races?
[00:34:03] **Kevin Chang:**
How many races do you think you've run over the 20, I guess 20 years now that you've been running races. If you were to venture a guess, how many races do you think you've run?
[00:34:16] **John Burton:**
Yeah, Casey. I mean, I don't know. I think ultra sign up has or athletics. One of those have like 121, but, you know, I was also running back in the the eighties and nineties as a kid. My parents would take me out to the little Turkey trot or whatever 5k or 10 K.
I remember I was probably 10 and I was out doing a 10 K race. And my parents were driving behind me, you know, we might've made sure I was okay. And that I've finished it. And there was an awfully dog and they came up in there.
What are you doing sitting down. I'm like, oh, there's a dog over there. So they had to drive with me to get past the dog. So none of, none of those, the races are online because they were back in the day, so it could be closer to 200, so.
I'm not the most prolific racer, but yeah, but I've been at it for awhile. And like I said, you know, consistency once, once I took those few years off from working out in college and got out of shape, I never wanted to have that happen again. So I do try to, to train consistently and yeah get out and get out and race a little bit.
I probably, I know you've had some other guests on the show like Verdi, Brene, who's running every weekend or racing somewhere. I'm not that I'm not that prolific of a, of a racer, but yeah, I try to
try to still race once in a while just to stay, stay sharp.
### Embracing Adversity
[00:35:29] **Bertrand Newson:**
We love the fact that you are just embracing adversity. You know, that's going to happen in races, especially with the race distances that you choose and the way you go after it. But also the parallels, you know, Casey and I've talked. Just in life. Life is going to happen. I'm going to be times where everything, you know, the race is going along well in life.
Aid stations are coming up. You fill your stride, you fill your cadence. You feel like you're running with the wind at your back. But there are cases when you maybe feel a little bit overextended you feel yourself cramped. You feel yourself wanting to give up and being able to understand and learn those lessons and to apply them in life.
Like you applying your, your race experiences and saying, Hey it's, and it's not the end of the world. There's no shame in my game. And I can share and speak with confidence and some humor on the occasions where I went for it. And it didn't work out. Yes. I took an Uber off the course. Yes, I hopped in the ambulance after having a mimosa.
We didn't talk, we didn't talk about, oh, that's. Is that a Sprite on the course? All right. We'll have to get back to that story. But sharing that with other runners as well to sometimes get out of your comfort zone, because you may surprise yourself. But always there's something to learn when we navigate life adversity moments, always something learned as we navigate race or training adversity.
[00:36:43] **John Burton:**
Yeah, Coach B, that's a great point to know, you know, I think you're talking, it's kind of a, as running as a metaphor for life and some of the challenges we face in life, whether it's, you know, injuries, I mean you both and myself, I've struggled with different injuries. I'm actually working through a, kind of a calf injury right now, but not just running related injuries.
It could be, you know, work, you get laid off or you're in between jobs, so this is a stressful project going on at work. Or families, relationships, we've all had, you know, relationships that have ended or gone bad or families, you know? Okay. Maybe you can't end those relationships.
My younger brother, Eric, after one particularly bad fight where we were throwing bicycles at each other, and six, six police showed up with guns drawn. He said, oh, you better go on eBay and buy yourself a new brother. Right.
So, I mean, family is family, and we're not, we're not buying new family members on evade. He and I are talking again. But yeah, you know, you have those, those struggles with, with life and with work and relationships and family and that.
Yeah coach "B", that's a great metaphor. Yeah. Parallels your, your training and racing, right? The ups and downs and just the, the consistency and keep working at things.
From my side, I, I do actually tend to use running as a, I guess, not just running, but cycling as well as a, as a form of medication, because I struggled when I was younger with some depression and some, I was never diagnosed, but whether you want to call it bipolar or just, you know, just being depressed or being a teenager and emo teenager, you know, with long hair and a pony tail, and just trying to fit into the world.
And yeah, I was found that, that running and cycling, and if you can do something every day, it does help with the hormonal levels and just making you, you feel that you've done something worthwhile and that you're making some, some progress and all. Control the things you can control.
Maybe you can't control what's going on with the relationship or with a work project or a difficult person in your life. But you can control whether you get out the door and do that five mile run or go for that bike ride. So, yeah, that's, that's great.