The Epic Adventures of Endorphin Dude! Pt. 2: Quest for the Buckle

## Interview Part 2
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:00:00]
And when I crossed the finish line of Burning River, I was thinking to myself, I dedicated that race to my parents, both my mom and my dad, because my parents sacrificed everything so that I can have something. the stories that my mom has told me over the years about our fleeing Vietnam is, is tragic. You know, it's like six nights, seven days on a fishing boat I didn't really truly understand how much my parents sacrificed for us. Until I was an adult. And when my father died, everything was brought to light
###### Kevin Chang: [00:00:37]
hello, and welcome to the RaceMob podcast, where we're all about running long, having fun and making the human connection.
This is episode number 40.
###### Kevin Chang: [00:00:46]
I'm Kevin entrepreneur technology and fitness nerd. And I'm joined by the head coach of RaceMob and master motivator, the incomparable Bertrand Newson.
It's a bird. It's a plane. It's wait. No, it couldn't be yes. It's the one and only endorphin dude.
In this episode, we talk about the goals that Tony set forth after completing his Epic titanium quest. And what's the natural progression. Well, of course it's the conquer ultra marathons and some of the most grueling races on the planet. Tony knows that he can outwork almost anyone, but that didn't prevent a couple of devastating losses, especially early on in his ultra career.
Fortunately Tony learned from each and every endeavor
and he brings some of these lessons to an introspective informative and incredibly entertaining conversation. Quick note we had a bit of technical difficulty with Coach B's audio he was there on the call but his audio didn't get recorded So without further ado, here's the rest of our chat with the one and only endorphin dude. .
### Training for Ultra
###### Kevin Chang: [00:01:52]
Yeah. So, marathons weren't enough. You were like, Oh, not enough. Not quite enough. I got to go further. Got to put my body through more and more. So Walk us through it.
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:02:01]
It just seemed like the next logical step to take as like you run your first half marathon, naturally you progress to the marathon. You run your first marathon. Naturally you progressed to 52 marathons in 52 weeks, you know,
###### Kevin Chang: [00:02:21]
That's just the next logical step. That's right.
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:02:24]
It was the next logical step to go ultra
Those who are new to the show and who may not know what an ultra and ultra race is any distance beyond the marathon distance. So anything over 26.2 miles is an ultra race, an ultra marathon. So that could be a 50 K, which is 31 miles. If 50 miler, a hundred K a 100 miler or beyond. So I started dabbling in the whole trail running thing.
And the ultra scene, I started knocking out a couple of 50 Ks. So my first 50 miler was. It totally by accident. I did the 24 hour race at Crissy field and I just wanted to get just like 50 K distancing. And I still had like about 12 hours on the clock or whatever it was. So I just kept going. I just kept walking around Crissy field. It was new year's one day that's right.
And then by the end of the 24 hours, I knocked out my first 50 miles, it was a total accident. So, um, and then I got hooked. And so I kind of said to myself, the next logical step then is to get the buckle.
. So I. Started training for my first hundred miler and at my very first a hundred miler, which was a huge learning experience for me, it was at a race called nanny goats. It was a one mile loop around a barn, like a ranch, you know, it was like, you run through like the horse stables and, you know, there were chickens and goats, you know, on this ranch and dogs running around.
So picture it, it's like Memorial day weekend down in Riverside. It's hot. You're on a barn, you know, and it's like dusty long, long story short. My first a hundred mile attempt. I DNF at mile 88. Imagine you're working your butt off, you get to mile 88 and you just lose everything, all steam. And, and I was like, Oh my God.
So for my first a hundred mile attempt, yeah, I did enough that mile 88. I had to kind of reevaluate, uh, what went wrong, what went right. What I can do different. And, I jumped back into training and came back like three months later. So nanny goat was in may, in August. So may, June, July. So three months later, I attempted to my second hundred miler at a race called Rendezvous.
###### Bertrand Newson: [00:04:52]
San Martine, California.
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:04:54]
Yeah. You know where it is. Okay. Have you done Rendezvous?
###### Bertrand Newson: [00:04:57]
I have supported the pace there before.
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:05:00]
Awesome. So you, you know that that's Oh my God. Morgan Hill.
###### Bertrand Newson: [00:05:10]
Put the Cape on though. It will save you! Put the Cape on!
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:05:17]
Oh God, it was absolutely miserable. It was like a hundred degrees, but I duked it out. I just kind of like when you can't run you walk, when you can't walk, you crawl or, you know, You keep drinking your water. You keep putting the ice in the ice bandana. Oh my God. You do what it takes to get it done.
And my first hundred mile finish, I did it in 30 hours and nine minutes. It was a 32 hour cutoff. So I was well within the cutoff and I got my first buckle and that was, Oh, you know, actually I might have it. I do, I do.
Here's my first buckle. My first one hundred mile buckle right there. And it was, it was a huge accomplishment because I was like, wow, I just ran a hundred miles. We just ran a hundred miles. I'm a 100 mile finisher, you know? .
### Nanny Goat - A lesson on failure
###### Kevin Chang: [00:06:24]
I wanna go back to Nanny Goat, because I remember following you on social media. And I remember you posting about Nanny Goat and you know, all the training leading up to it. And I mean, you were pretty devastated.
It was a really, really rough moment for you. So I'd love to know. What do you think you learned the most from that experience and how did you take that into the next a hundred miles?
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:06:47]
I actually grew up after nanny Nanny Goat was a Rite of passage. What happened at nanny goat is something I, I have a hard time talking about because it's, it's a hard topic for me.
I had a complete meltdown at nanny goat and it wasn't. An internal meltdown. It was a very public meltdown. It's not something I'm completely proud of, but it happened, you know, I mean, I had reached this level of so much despair and anger with myself that I just lost control. And had a very public meltdown.
I learned how to really control my emotions. When you see me at a race, you've said, so like, when you first saw me, you see me smiling and happy I'm extreme like that, but it's also on the other end, too, when I'm upset, you know, I can be, you know, very upset, you know? So at Nanny Goat, it was hard for me and I had to emotionally recover from that race.
It took me weeks, months to fully recover emotionally from it, because it was that difficult for me to handle right now. I feel like I'm not very eloquent and trying to explain this because it's a hard topic and we've talked about, but, um, but I got through it, you know, and the takeaway from nanny goat was that I learned how to really dig deep.
And not give up. I think about nanny goat, every hundred miles that I do, I think back to what happened at nanny goat. And it pushes me to work harder to finish every other a hundred mile race that I've done.
###### Kevin Chang: [00:08:23]
I can't even imagine, you know, that months and months and months of training of hard work of everything that goes into an event, all of the planning all of the time, you know, how incredibly frustrating it must be to not be able to finish.
That your body is giving up on you. That, and so, yeah, I mean, I, I completely appreciate the situation that you must've been in and, you know, I appreciate you being able to reflect back on it and grow from it because, you know, w one thing that we always talk with our athletes about is sometimes you have to fail in order to grow, right?
Sometimes you have to push your body, push yourself mentally to a state of exhaustion, to, to a state of like, I didn't know, I could go there. I didn't know physically. I could go there for, in order for you to grow. So I appreciate that. You've kind of made this career of like, I'm going to just keep pushing.
Like there is no quit in me. I am just going to go. I appreciate you then also, if you do fail, being able to come back from that, you know, because eventually if you push your body hard enough through these situations, you probably will fail at some point in time. I mean, that's. That's just human physiology and you just gotta learn from those experiences.
So that's, that's incredible. That's fantastic.
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:09:36]
Do you know what my record is? In a hundred mile races?
###### Kevin Chang: [00:09:41]
I don't.
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:09:42]
You know, you're talking about learning from failure. My philosophy is that, is it truly failure if you learn something from the experience? No, it's not. My record in hundred mile races is.... I am 10 and 15 in a hundred milers, which means I have 25 attempts at the a hundred miler, only 10 finishes.
I have 15 DNS at the a hundred miles, so I have a losing record, but I don't see it as losing
###### Kevin Chang: [00:10:17]
there's 25 more attempts than 99.9, 9% of the population me included. I mean, You're going for it. And that's, as more than most people will ever, ever even think about, about doing.
So has that record improved over time? Have you learned from your experiences, have you gotten better?
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:10:37]
I have. And I remember most of my DNS came in the early part of my ultra career. And like in the last couple of years, I've learned from every race. Every experience and my biggest success at the a hundred, I would say is, um, this is my Burning River 100 mile buckle here.
And let me tell you a little bit, a little bit something about this race. It took me three tries to finish burning river. So let me, let me give a little background. So once I finished my first 300 miles, the next logical place, the question was. To get a Western States qualifier.
### The Western States Qualifier
So for your listeners out there who are unfamiliar with Western States, Western States, one hundred mile endurance run is a 100 mile race that starts up in Olympic Valley. Uh, formerly squall Valley. Now it's called Olympic Valley, and in Auburn. It's a 100 mile foot race that goes through there.
The Western States is too trail running as to what the Boston marathon is to road racing. Boston is like the Holy grail race for many, many winners. If you can get to Boston fall of five for it and then run it, that's kind of like most runners. Holy grail for trail runners, it's Western state. Um, that's like the Boston of trail running.
So in order to qualify for Western States, you have to finish a race that is either a hundred miler or a hundred K. And then that just gives you a ticket to get put into the lottery, to get selected, to run this.
And it's a tough race. I think last year there was like 6,600 applicants for like, you know, 200 spots or whatever it is. So it's a very tough race to get into.
So after my first couple of hundreds that I completed, I wanted that Western States qualifier, you know, cause I, I wanna, you know, one day run Western States.
So my first attempt was at getting the qualifier. I ran a race called Havalina a hundred and drop to the a hundred K there. I was like, okay, well it's not failure. You learn from it. So let's just keep moving forward. You know, so I attempted to run on a race called burning river and that one was another heartbreaker I got to Mount 86.5.
And I missed the cutoff by 12 minutes. Can you imagine running for over 26 hours and getting to my 86.5, you only have like basically a half marathon left and you miss the cutoff by 12 minutes, you get into that eight station. And the eighth station captain says to you, I'm sorry, but you have to give me your bib.
So I took off my bib. I handed it to the person and I just crawled up in a corner. Like it was like, what 4:00 AM in Ohio. I'm curl up in the corner and I'm sobbing. I'm just like, just, I was so sad, you know, and I had to take the shuttle of shame back to the finish line. You know, they, they, you know, they brought back the, all the people who missed the cutoff and they dropped us off at the finish line.
And what was so even sadder was that where they dropped us. We had to cross the finish line, get through our drop bag. So everyone's congratulated. Oh, congratulations. Awesome word hundred miles. There's like, Oh, I didn't finish.
### Defeat and Loss
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): That race. Really crushed me. It killed my soul. So I vowed to come back to burning river, which I did in 2017. And in 2017, I had just come off of injuries and illnesses and a lot of bad luck. And I got to mile 60 at burning river that year, and that just broke my heart as well.
And then I said to myself, I'm probably never going to run burning river ever again because burning river always falls on San Francisco marathon weekend. It's always the same weekend. So, you know, Francisco, that's my race. That was my first marathon. It's the one I will run for the rest of my life as long as I can.
But then this year, this pandemic happened or not this year, last year, 2020, this pandemic happened. And so all these races were getting canceled, left and right. And burning river. The July date got postponed to August. Sounds like, Oh, there's no conflict with the San Francisco marathon this year. This could be my year.
So I flew to Ohio, I was going to run this race and a week before the race, my dad died and everything just kind of like stopped. I felt this incredible guilt from my dad dying. And because of the pandemic, we couldn't do anything. We couldn't have any services.
Just a little background. I hadn't spoken to my dad in 20 years. And so I felt like this deep... you realize this is the first time I'm publicly talking about this. This is the first time I'm publicly talking about my dad's death and the nature of it.
My dad and I hadn't talked to each other in about 20 years. And when he died, I felt this great sense of guilt because I never did anything to reach out to him. And the other side of the guilt is that my dad was never unkind to me. He was always good to me. And I just, I felt this guilt and I couldn't really shake it.
And then, you know, we're in a pandemic and then I had this a hundred miler happening. And on top of all that, it's also the stress. Of the pandemic, because I'm not going to get into the pandemic because this whole pandemic thing, it became political on both ends of the spectrum. You have your anti maskers down on this end and you have your don't spread this, uh, stay in doors, you know?
And so I was being judged and criticized. For my actions because I was going to Ohio, but I had to deal with that stress with people, judging me for running a race. And what people don't understand is that I work in healthcare. I've been working from day one of this pandemic.
I been practicing safe COVID safe practices. I've been sanitizing when I need to, I get tested every three weeks for my job. I have been social distancing and been very conscientious of COVID 19. So it was hard for me, the stress of my father dying and the stress of people judging me for going to run a race in Ohio. But I got through it. I ran that race.
And I just remember being like deep into the race in the deep miles of like 70 through 90, I had to push really hard because I was having conversations with my dad in my head and it just became like this surreal kind of race, you know, for me, it wasn't just the race. It was like this weird kind of like Netflix show in my head that I'm trying to figure out.
Anyway, I ended up finishing that race. Um, after three tries, I finished that race in about 29 and a half hours. And that was probably the biggest learning experience for me out of every race that I've ever done, because I had to really deal with all the emotions tied to that race. Emotions regarding my father's death and the pandemic and everything else.
Um, that was really long-winded. I did not rehearse that. I'm sorry, that didn't sound eloquent at all, but I just, the first time I get to talk about it.
###### Kevin Chang: [00:18:21]
Absolutely. And in fact, I remember vividly because you posted on it Facebook, um, about your father's death. It was right around when I was about to email you to about coming on the podcast. And then I thought, you know, probably best to give you a bit of time, because...
### A story of immigration and sacrifice
I mean, talk to me just a little bit about, about your dad. I know that he was still living in Vietnam, that he had, you know, sacrificed quite a bit to let you get over here to the States. Talk to us a little bit about. What he meant to you and what types of conversations you were having on that run in Burning River,
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:18:53]
So we're Vietnamese refugees for, your older, listeners out there.
You probably remember in the seventies, there was a wave of Vietnamese refugees coming in after like the tail end of the Vietnam war. So these Vietnamese refugees were boat people who came to the United States. We were boat people.
And when I crossed the finish line of Burning River, I was thinking to myself, I dedicated that race to my parents, both my mom and my dad, because my parents sacrificed everything so that I can have something.
And it was just crazy because the stories that my mom has told me over the years about our fleeing Vietnam is, is tragic. You know, it's like six nights, seven days on a fishing boat with like 50 other Vietnamese people. Families, children, older folks on one boat and just being out at sea for like six, seven days like that.
And then finally getting rescued by a commercial cargo ship, you know, but I don't remember any of them. I was only two, but I don't remember any of this, but my older brother's districts do. And these are things that it's hard for them to talk about.
Um, for me, it's easier to talk about because I don't remember any of it. But that's how we immigrate to the United States. We escape from Vietnam when the war broke out. So my dad was the one who spearheaded that we had like four different families on the same fishing boat. Yeah. That's what my parents did for us.
And I remember growing up, I didn't really understand this when I was growing up, but I didn't really truly understand how much my parents sacrificed for us. Until I was an adult. And when my father died, everything was brought to light to me and I fully kind of shit. And I started talking to my mom more and learned more about our history and yeah, that's, that's what I learned from, um, all that happened in Ohio burning river, you know, all these things in my head.
Yeah, my mom would tell me all these things. I mean, she would tell me all these things in Vietnamese, of course I'm translating for your benefit, but, um, yeah, that's,
###### Kevin Chang: [00:20:59]
I appreciate it.
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:21:03]
Kevin, you're kind of Barbara Walters.
So my first Western States qualifier, I got in 2015, I got it. So random. I told you when I DNF that mile 86.5 at burning river in 2014. Well, I reexamined everything that went wrong at burning river.
Look at what went right. And kind of went back into training mode and ended up doing a race in Texas called Rocky raccoon in Superbowl Sunday, 2015. And I finished Rocky raccoon in about 28 and a half hours. Come up with 30 hours. I did, I did well there and earned my first Western States qualifier at Rocky raccoon.
And then I went through like a two year drought because I got injured. And then I got like some really weird illnesses. I had this rheumatoid arthritis thing going on that attacks like my joints. That went on. And then I had like this bout of kidney stones. I pass like about 17 kidney stones in a course of two years, 17 kidney stones.
So anyway, so all of these, like Dylan's is bad luck, kind of sidelined for about two and a half years. And then in 2017, 2018, I said to myself, I can't do this anymore. I have to get back into this. So I started training harder, train smarter, and I dropped a little bit more weight. I dropped about 20 pounds and I was getting back to ultra form at this point.
And then I ran a race, um, called Rio Del Lago. It's a hundred mile race. In 2018 and I finished that. And so I earned my second, um, Western States qualified. And then a few months later I ran a a hundred K called black Canyon in Arizona and earned my Western States qualifier there. That qualifier was what got me into Western States.
So every year at Western States, I volunteer at mile 78 of Western States at the Rucky Chucky, which is the river crossing. So my job at the Rucky Chucky is I'm basically in the water holding on to the cable oners, uh, across the river, I would say to the runner and like, Oh, there's a rock right there. Be careful. Watch your step here. There are Paranas over there.
So at the aid stations at Western States, they're allowed one ticket into Western state that they can give to anyone, any one of their volunteers. So at my aid station, I had volunteered there for five years. And after the fifth year I was awarded the rookie Chucky Western States tickets. So I got into Western state and I was really excited because I had worked so hard for this.
I spent like the last. Seven eight years of my life training for this one race. And I finally got in and then boom, COVID-19 happened. Then they canceled the race. So, um, the race got postponed till 2021. And at this time I, we still don't know if it's going to happen. The RD and the board are optimistic that it will, but at the end of the day, it comes down to if they can get the permits, because we live in California, the race is in California.
California is a little bit stricter. There's no guarantee that we will get the permit. So Western States make it postponed for another year. I don't know, but I'm still training my quads off as if it's still happening.
###### Kevin Chang: [00:24:45]
That's right. Yeah. Cause I, I think you're still running hundred milers if I'm not mistaken. I think you ran another one recently. Right? I remember seeing. Some fast times going on over there is you, you are training your buns off right now.
### Endurance over Speed
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:24:58]
Okay. Let me tell you why I run a hundred milers. I'm a trail boy. I'm an ultra guy. I tell people all the time they ask me all the time. Why do you want these hundred miles? Well, the answer is pretty simple actually.
I'm too slow for Boston. I'm really slow. I can't run my Boston time for my age, you know, but give me 30 hours. I'm an endurance guy. I can give you a hundred miles because I like the long slow distances, you know. I like that. I can stop at Mount 80 and eat pizza and mayonnaise. Have you ever put things on pizza?
That's my favorite condiment. I love mayonnaise. I carry mayonnaise packets with me on my ultras because, so, okay. Look at these eight stations, they have like potatoes. Okay. So you get into like mile 70, 80, and you know, you get to the aid station and you see like this bowl of potatoes and it's great.
You know, it's great fuel, but if you have mayonnaise packet, just rip it open and put a little bit on the pill. Yep. Instant potato salad. Right? So, um, anyway, where was I going with this? I saw, I got sidetracked on the mayonnaise thing of where was I going with this? What are we talking about?
###### Kevin Chang: [00:26:14]
You said that's the reason why you're training that you're training so hard, but I mean, you are, you are killing it out there these days.
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:26:21]
Yeah, I do my best, you know? And so I've noticed that I've been getting faster and fitter, you know, just from experience, you know, I'm not doing anything different per se, but I'm just smarter now, you know? I mean, I get more rest. I eat better now and I don't eat large quantities of food. You know, I've been able to maintain my weight and I'm training really hard cause I really want to run Western States and hopefully it'll happen in June, but if not, it could get postpone till September.
We don't know it could get postponed till next June. We don't know, but I'm still training my butt off as if it's happening because, um, That's my Holy grail race. That's, that's the one I want to finish. And I like the hundred miler because as painful as it is physically, it's so rewarding to finish, you know, I mean, cause it's more than four marathons in one city, you know?
And what am I about to say, it's going to sound really, really ridiculous. And it's probably gonna make me sound like a psycho, but I'll say it anyway. The analogy that I use. Is, you know how, like when you're taking a bubble bath, you're like in the tub and you fill the water up with hot water. And so you're comfortably just kind of in the bath with your hot water.
Well, eventually that hot water will cool down and it will become lukewarm. So you have to add more hot water, but then you get to the point where there's not enough hot water. So you have to like boil a pot of kettle and pour in the scolding hot water.
That's kind of like what the a hundred miler is like for me, you know, it's like, I need to feel like that. That's golden burning sensation for me to like a marathon is warm water for me. Now the marathon is just like this nice tepid water. I need to feel that scalding hot water. But no, I'm not addicted.
###### Kevin Chang: [00:28:21]
I love it. Well, I mean, we will definitely be rooting for you at Western States. We really, really hope that it happens this year. And if it does happen, we definitely want to be taking them along for the ride and route you the entire way along. I know that you're big. Metal person. You love the awards. You love the bling.
### Virtual Races
So are you part of any virtual races between now and then any bling that you're excited about, about getting your hands on?
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:28:47]
I have something to say about virtual racing. Now I know there are people out there who vehemently despise virtual racing. They just like some people are just. Very vocal about virtual races are not real races and it shouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah, blah.
The way I see it. And especially now during the pandemic, there's no races, but different people have different ways of motivating themselves, you know, so whatever it takes to get someone to get out there.
So I know this one lady who does virtual races because she can't meet like the marathon cutoff times, you know, but by doing a virtual race, she does it at her own time and it motivates her to get out there to do something for herself to improve herself.
So I'm all about. Virtual racing or anything that gets people out there making those healthy changes to the life. Now, I personally love these virtual racing because I need to get the mileage in for my training. And if you dangle a metal in my face, more motivation for me to get those training miles in.
And so I started doing just like 100 mile virtual races, you know, and then they keep upping the ante. Now they're like 200, 300, 500. I'm kind of currently doing two different races. So marathon mat as his. Sasquatch road trip going on right now. So I'm doing that. That's 348 mile race, but that one I'm just plugging along because I have to do that.
So I'm only doing like maybe five to 10 miles a day for that one. And then I'm doing this other one, the social distancing one, I'm doing it solely for the metals. So this metal here. Oh, wow.
###### Kevin Chang: [00:30:39]
That's cool.
###### Endorphin Dude (Tony Nguyen): [00:30:42]
So this race company, they have a series of these work of art metals. Their second one is the screen. And then there have a third, fourth, and fifth would, they haven't revealed which work of art they're going to put on the metal, but that's their series. It's the work of art series. That's what I'm doing. So things like this. Metals and pint glasses and buckles. I know they are just trinkets. They're just physical objects, but they serve as motivation for me.
And it makes it fun for me, you know? Cause it's hard for me just to get out and do a 20 mile run. If I know that there is some sort of incentive to complete those miles and that incentive could be in the form of a metal, a virtual race. Whatever, you know, it makes it a lot easier for me to get motivated.
It's been hard during the pandemic because we don't have live races. So I get that fixed through these virtual races. And it's, it's good because there's a sense of community too, because a lot of these races have Facebook groups that you can. Talk to others and there's friendly competition too. So you check each other Strava results and it just makes it fun, you know?
And I think it's good for everyone. You know, that's why I do these virtual races because there are a lot of fun.
### Episode Conclusion
###### Kevin Chang: [00:31:59]
That's incredible. That is great. And I know that you're always posting on Instagram and on Facebook. I mean, I follow your venture everywhere because I mean, you're such a fun, enjoyable person to be around and it just came through.
Completely in this podcast, how wonderful you are, how inspiring you are out upbeat and what an incredible person you are. And so, you know, I know that this is just kind of the start of our wonderful friendship with you. It has meant so much to me, the amount that you've inspired me personally over the years.
And we will definitely be seeing you sometime here in the future when, when this pandemic is down and out, because. Your smiling face, your Cape, your personality, your everything just brings a smile to all of our faces makes us be able to run through a brick wall at the end of the race and, uh, and say hi to chewy for us.
Uh, and, and the cat. Thank you so much, Tony Ray, appreciate it so much. I'm sure we will be talking to you again real soon. So thank you again.